Here goes my suggestion for more realistic force ratios with correct plane introduction dates and rewarding good flying. It is based loosely on fact that new plane types were first supplied to most succesful pilots and squadrons. All pilots would be still able to fly their favorite airplanes. More succesful they are the earlier they have possiblilty to use it. 1. Give all planes right intro date. (Me 262) 2. Give all planes right FMs (La 7) 3. Restrict new planes. As example I take few axis rides(this will ofcourse apply to all other planes with loosely historic ratios depending on plane) Bf 109f-4 June 1941, 10 streak. Bf 109f-4 Dec 1941, 5 streak. Bf 109f-4 June 1942, free. FW 190a-4 June 1942, 10 streak. FW 190a-4 December 1942, 5 streak. FW 190a-4 June 1943, free FW 190a-8 Jan 1944, 5 streak. FW 190a-8 June 1944, free. FW 190d-9 August 1944, 10 streak. FW 190d-9 Dec 1944, 5 streak. FW 190d-9 June 1945, free. Me 262a-1 August 1944, 30 streak. Me 262a-1 Dec 1944, 15 streak. Me 262a-1 June 1945, 5 streak. Bf 109k-4 August 1944, 10 streak. Bf 109k-4 Dec 1944, 5 streak. Bf 109k-4 June 1945, free. With these restrictions applied to all planes (considering their availability) we would see realistic ratios of each plane in flight. For example lets say arena time was October 1944 and 35golds online. Maybe 2 pilots would have over 30 streak. About 5 pilots would have over 10streak and 10 pilots over 5 streak. Planes in air would be as following (supposing all want to fly best plane, which isnt true) 2x262 5x109k-4/190d-9 10x109g-10 13x190a8/190a4/109f-4/109g-2/109g-6... What do you think? Simply vote yes or no.
All proposals and rough scetches for plane restrictions are most welcome. Needs some discussion before we can develop plane list and availability so that it best matches realism and so that most of players can agree rate of restrictions.
Hi Illo, I basically agree with you, but I think that availability should not be based on streak. As you said: newer planes were given to better squads first. Normal squad rating is based on K/D ratio, so I think that this parameter would be better than streak, allowing players a more stabile tecnical equipment also (as it was in RL: you did not change plane model any sortie). It should also be considered that - besides availability changing with time - some crafts were built in very small amount overall (i.e. 262), so their availability should always be limited. Best regards Prometeo JG13 Loki's Kinder - Hela Jasta
Hi Illo, Great idea! However, the obstacles for getting access to a good fighter shouldn't be as high as your draft suggests. Here's a distribution of average streak ratios from wb.de (fighter bomber sorties at wb.de counted as bomber sorties, so these numbers reflect pure fighter usage): Code: Ratio: 5+ ..... 3% Ratio: 4 ...... 2% Ratio: 3 ...... 4% Ratio: 2 ...... 8% Ratio: 1 ..... 16% Ratio <1 ..... 67% Here's the cumulated distribution so you see how many players are available for flying aircraft that require a certain threshold: Code: Ratio: 5+ ..... 3% Ratio: 4 ...... 5% Ratio: 3 ...... 9% Ratio: 2 ..... 17% Ratio: 1 ..... 33% Ratio <1 .... 100% The streak is a bit of a random thing, but remember that of you usually score 5 kills per streak before your streak is ended, you're spending time at 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 kills so that you get to fly a plane available for a streak of 3+ only 50% of the time. In other words, demanding even a streak of 1 for a plane will make a big impact on the frequency of its appearance in the arena. You can estimate only 33% of the players will get to fly it! A requirement of a 2 or 3 streak is pretty restrictive already - you can see that only the top 9% of the players achieved a streak ratio of 3 or better, and at any given time, some of them will be below 3 as they've recently suffered a defeat. And I think one shouldn't overdo the streak idea though it's very good to start with. The experienced players already have their skill, and the aircraft limitation should encourage new players to build their own skills, not discourage them by putting them up against superior pilots flying superior aircraft. Making most planes available for a streak of one will already stop them from appearing in a flood, which was your original idea. Making them available for a streak of two will make them pretty rare, anything beyond will make them outright exotic Oh, and I like your idea very well! I really hope it gets implemented! Regards, Henning (HoHun)
Maybe it could be avalible using sorties flown?? maybe not all pilots are great, but some try really hard, and it should not be based on kills, but land/death ratio, that could be better, and encourage people to RTB more often. If i was a general, I would probly give my better equipment to personal that keep theres in good shape I think its based too much on kills, streak, and who shot sho more, example, I fly ALOT of jabo missions ((over 80% normally)), should I not be aloud to use the new fw190a4 because I fly ground attack mostly?? It wouldn't be fair if fighters got more stuff then attackers BTW, bombers could have there own thing, maybe could be based on streak, because streak is missions lived
Hi Illo, >Planes in air would be as following (supposing all want to fly best plane, which isnt true) 2x262 5x109k-4/190d-9 10x109g-10 13x190a8/190a4/109f-4/109g-2/109g-6... Based on streak ratios as outlined in my above post and with limitations of: Code: Me 262A-1 .... 3 ratio Me 109K-4 .... 2 ratio Fw 190D-9 .... 2 ratio Me 109G-10 ... 1 ratio The arena would look like this: Code: 3 x 262 2 x 109k-4/190d-9 6 x 109g-10 24 x 190a8/190a4/109f-4/109g-2/109g-6... If you use actual streaks as a basis, you've to take into account that most people are below their streak ratio at any given time so that the aircraft outfit would be even older. Just because it's easy for you to rack up a long streak, don't assume it's that way for everyone - it most certainly isn't! Regards, Henning (HoHun)
Hi Gahis, >Maybe it could be avalible using sorties flown?? You could fake it, and people would. >example, I fly ALOT of jabo missions Good point. But the score has information about destroyed ground targets as well, you could count them towards the "streak" too. Regards, Henning (HoHun)
Hi Thrapt, >streak is how many kills you get without being killed/captured Well, for whom did you write this? The streak is a snap-shot, you might have a streak of 5 though you get only an average of 1 kill before your streak is ended. You could also have an average of 5 kills per streak, but when you just were killed before the Dora comes out, you won't get access to it as your current streak is 0. Regards, Henning (HoHun)
good idea illo, my squad mate simply think about this 6 monts ago but 262 in 1944 for streak 100, like in RL
But, I know tens of other pilots who are able to get streak of 15 whenever they want within 1 hour. Note that mostly people dont fly to live because it isnt encouraged. Every pilot is still able to fly every plane. I agree on smaller restrictions though. Maybe starting from streak 5 at intro date? 262 should have atleast 15streak needed at start imho. It needs to be special reward. List you examples please.
Life is snap-shot. Or then again its not. Depends on flying attitude, if one is willing to waste lives. Now keeping alive isnt encouraged. Main reason sim flyers go away and quakers come in.
I think this is a very good idea. If planes are too good and bring the game balance in danger with their real appearance in ww2, they could be restricted. Streak is IMO a better approach to this. K/D is not so much infected by 1 kill in restricted plane, but IMO it should. Therefor restriction could be lower. If you have been a dweeb at beginning of ToD, your K/D is ruined. A streak >5 is easier to get in short time (yes, not for all ) than a push to your K/D. If hohun says that newbies get sick of being shot down by superior pilots in superior planes, he is maybe right, but superior pilots don't need superior planes to do that anyway If you want to fly restricted planes, you have to care for your virtual life. Less quake, more skill and tactic. I like that approach. But with streak as limiter you can be a dweeb too. Sometimes it's fun to be that and furball. It's a compromise. And yes, the streak for ME262 should be high. This jetplane is the UNBALANCE itself
aïeee! yes! sounds very good! i was very worried about illos initial values. but after hohuns example of WB.de and others ideas we could have an awsome system! imagine in Apr 41, for example. bf109F4 is available for the 1st time, but only to people with ratio3. and it goes decresing each month or two that passes. going to ratio2 in May 41; ratio1 in Jun 41; and free from Jul 41 and on. and imagine coupleing this with hohuns previous idea on ecomomy! planes of higher ratio costing more % of economy then comes in another discussion: what is each ratio ;-) something like fighters: ratio3: [streak]*1 + ["streak" of struts]*0.5 >= 5 ratio2: [streak]*1 + ["streak" of struts]*0.5 >= 3 ratio1: [streak]*1 + ["streak" of struts]*0.5 >= 1 ratio0: nothing ;-) bombers: ratio3: ["streak" of struts] >= 9 ratio2: ["streak" of struts] >= 6 ratio1: ["streak" of struts] >= 3 ratio0: nothing tho ["streak" of struts] would require a new value in scores. and buffs would not depend on regular streak to help stop ackstarring ;-)
I don't really consider anything that rewards better playing with more advantages as a good thing. Their experience already gives them more than enough advantage as is, especially here. A new player starting out is happy just to get their gunsight on someone before being blown out of the sky, forcing them to fly unterplanes as well is going too far. Players are already greatly rewarded for flying to live, by the scoring system. The current streak-6 fuel thing is as much of a perk as I'm comfortable with giving, it's just a measure of greater freedom....better aircraft is just too much. BTW, if you guys really want to encourage "realistic force ratios", then you'll need to focus on more than just clouds of basic-yet-not-too-bad fighters or such. You'll have to get in a large number of Stukas, 110s, 190F/Gs, etc, etc.
I dont know many players that ever check their scores. Imho scores in flightsim are little inconvinient. People can play TETRIS for scores, but i doubt its any motivation for WB. What is your idea to get planes available when they should be?
