United States of America forever!

Look: I know I'm in "hostile environment" here, but maybe this is what makes it worthwhile.

This night (in Germany, that is), there will be the Presidential elections in the US. Tell you some now, although I agree with the Bush policy, I don't give much of a flue about whether he or Kerry will be elected. Whatever the outcome, it will in no way vanish my admiration of the United States of America. I admire the United States of America for what it is. I personally would favor Bush, but if Kerry gets elected, it won't change a damn about my view of the United States. Actually, the election of Kerry - it might increase the chance of a re-newed trans-atlantic conversation, which I as a German, who is actually believing that this country can get more out of it than it's trusting itself to achieve, could only welcome. However, election warfare aside, I want to take this opportunity to thank the United States of America, and her citizens who might read this, for the enduring effort for West Germany during the cold war. You not only freed us from Hitler whom we've brought upon ourselves via means of an actual democratic election, you also kept us free, you kept us democratic, you kept us free from communist slavery during the whole of the cold war. This was no easy task. It was always on the riff to armageddon, including your own country. JFK (Cuban missile crises) and Reagan come to mind here. Many will view me as a "brown-noser." Wake up. Of course, the "battleground Europe" was in your own interest as means of a "barrier" before the Soviet threat would threaten your own homeland, but policy is ALWAYS about common and shared values, interests and visions. Policy is no "mister nice guy" game. Never. It's always give and take. Your massive deployment of formidable forces, both politic and military ones, including nuclear missiles in Western Germany (which many West-Germans were demonstrating against) kept us covered from Soviet expansion dreams nonetheless and made GERMANY RE-UNITED. They actually MADE them dreams, whereas they could have been reality like with Poland, Hungary etc.

It was a difficult "game". Actually, it was a poker game. The Soviet Union was no "joke". It was serious. But you won. While Western Germany endured freedom due to this since the end of the second World War, and could allow itself to develope a near-socialist welfare state cause it had basicly NO cost hardship to take care of on its own defense (while Reagon brought the US economy in trouble some by massive military cost-expansion), Eastern Germany and the former Soviet satelite states are at least experiencing this freedom since the fall of the Soviet Union. It could have gone the other way just as well. Or, worst, it could have ended up in a nuclear holocoust.

There are many, many people out there who talk about a "US imperium", "US colonialism". Those guys didn't check history. NEVER in the history of mankind has there been a power the size of the United States, which has actual monopoliy in military strength since the fall of the SU, that has restricted itself as far as the United States does. Compare the US to the Roman Empire. They are NOWHERE NEAR, albeit the US has FAR MORE power than the Romans had against their adversaries. The United States does not conduct itself the way the Romans did because it is a TRUE DEMOCRACY. Many people out there claim the US are no longer a "true Democracy" (whatever that means). This is utter shit. The proof that his is shit is happening tonight. Altough I personally do not agree with the visions and views of reality of Michael Moore (actually I personally hate him) for example, it is exactly for GUYS LIKE HIM, who are a living and breathing evidence that the United States democracy is for real. It is because of guys like him that the United States will never become what many "wish it to be" so that they can relativate and revision their own countrie's dark history. Hear this: The United States DO NOT have as much blood on their hands as your and my fucking communist/nazist/fascist/colonisalist European countries, whatever the way you try to twist it. Why? Because they ARE A DEMOCRACY, have always been, and always will be. THIS IS WHY THOSE GUYS SHIPPED OVER THE ATLANTIC IN WOODEN, HALF BROKEN SAIL-SHIPS IN THE FIRST PLACE! Sometimes, looking around me, I believe the best of Europe have left the continent for the "land of the free" back then. Actually, there was a guy in my family line I know next of nothing though unfortunately, who left Germany, Rhineland-Paletin (back than part of Bavaria) for the United States, (most probably on the ship "Shirly" back in 1871 IIRC and my researching didn't fool me) They were fed up with the stuff their and our ancestors, which were the same guys, have experienced in Europe. Let it be for religious, economic, politic or whatever reasons. They were the ones who sailed the dangerous waters of the Atlantic, from all of Europe, which includes England, Scottland, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Russia etc., sometimes not taking more with them than just one bag, for the free world, and they built it. They farmed the rocky fields of New England, went up into the hard mountains towards the West, AND THEY MADE THEIR DREAM COME ALIVE. NO SHIT. They took their freedom with them out of Europe and they brought it back to the coasts of Normandy back in 1944.

But all Europe (especially France and Germany, who envision themselves as "central EU powers") is doing right now is pissing on the United States in an effort to make itself look stronger, and view themselves as a "neccessary counterweight", instead of taking serious care about their own SERIOUS problems within what they like to call the "European Union". Not only to me, but to many of the Eastern EU member states citizens, the EU seems to be nothing than a fraud. And they might be right. Because Europe and its citizens are busy with IRRATINOAL HATRED AGAIN instead of BUILDING and ACHIEVING SOMETHING.

Europeans believe they are so much more "civilzed", "informed" and "educated" than citizens of the hated United States. Well, guys, the only problem though is that those dumb US citizens could and can actually achieve something, while we are busy and it seems SATISFIED with talking BULL all day long. The EU, while bargaining itself, can not even enforce its politic decisions and what it deems to be right. It has to rely on the then-called US if military comes into play (Kosovo), or, as alternative, has to hope that the EU's adversaries or potential threats (Iran) are actually interested in "educated" conversation. The only problem is that those know the game EXACTLY. And they will play it until they say "Now I want to see (your cards)". This could mean game-over, especially when we keep sending the US to hell. Instead of seeing itself as a "neccessary counterweight" (..to the US), Europe should have a VITAL interest in friendly, healthy and co-operative relations with the hated United States. We have more in common with them than with some fucking Mullahs or North Korean nuclear armed communist dictators, GET THIS. Accepting/Tolerating/Understanding/Discussing/Relativating islamist extremist views, which includes the ACTUAL destruction of Israel (as is written in their carta), the only real democratic state in the Middle East, has nothing to do with tolerance. Those guys are still living in the middle-age. It would be the same as tolerating and cooperating with crusaders as they were back in the middle-age, and I thought you all are so "educated" as to understand where we came from?

Regards
heartc

 

"Living next to the [United States] is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, one is affected by every twitch and grunt."

Peirre Elliot Trudeau

 

Perls to swine, heartc.

 

oh my god!!!

I actually agreed with some of Heartc's post!!!

holy fuck whats happening to me.

 

Yeah, I know. This is why many people bitch. But ain't it better than sleeping next to T-Rex? Or what is your vision? I'm afraid the vision of your's and that of the majority in this forum is simply not compatible with the actual reality (not yet, at least) and therefore out of debate, or is it? You would like to see some "Star Trek" world order? I guess not yet, pal, not yet. And it's the enemies of the US we got to stop if we ever want to see it, because the US are closest and most advanced if we consider state power vs. freedom of the individual, i.e. a functioning democratic system under a ruling regime with theoretical excessive power.

@antred:

You might be right. Though that doesn't take away or stop me in anything I said .

 

Listen, the USA and Canada have a huge HUGE border between us and it is NOT fortified. We two countries agreed to get along in 1814!!! In 1814 we signed a pact and since then our two countries SHOULD HAVE SERVED AS A MODEL FOR THE REST OF YOU FUCKIN RETARDED EUROS. Never ever for one second imagine Euro's have a superior relationship with the USA. CANADA does.
We are at peace with the USA. We, as a "culture" or a "Nation" know in our BONES how "Americans" [people from the USA] think and feel, for we are the CLOSEST of relatives, we are not cousins, we are SISTERS.
Fuck.
Don't try and teach grandad how to suck eggs.
[in any close and healthy relationship, there are points to argue over. We and our sister nation do it well, without rancour. Being allowed freedom of expression means many in our land can yell and scream about this issue and that, fact is though, the gov in the US respects our opinions and viewpoints even when the don't agree.]
I would say Heart's post may appear a little patronizing, but is it for the most part well said and positive.

The Monroe doctrine still scares the shit out of many millions of people and said doctrins HAS been policy for two centuries and has been acted on.
ANd yes, thank God the USA has not been the big bad bully it COULD have been.

 

Yhea, but were only gunna keep the name America for a lil while longer, we got friggen hippies attacking the religious aspects of the declaration of independence and the pledge of alegence......THE COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON WHITE COLONISTS, GET OVER IT YOU GUSHA GIBA WORSHIPERS!......Its like women at movies that show them having to do the dishes and make dinner and their like "if that was me I wouldnt do that! I would free enterprise" and Im all like "its 1400s, you free enterprise and your head will be on a pike after they hang you or off your head."..................sigh.....what ever happened to the pot smoking volkswagen driving good hippies?

Abba-zaba, your my only friend.

 

very nice post heritic. Its accully refreshion as us citizen to see somthing come from the east thats not portraying the us as statians spawn.
As for elections i dint like ither canidate.. i think the best 2 presidents in my life time were ragen ( for his world role) and clinten (for his home econimic grouth)( who cares if cliten porked a inturn, It was just garbage to put up and try to win votes for other party in seneate seats. many presidents were worse.)

 

VOTE BOB DOLE!

 

Thank you. Maybe I'm not as screwed as you thought, and you're not as screwed as I thought.

Regards
heartc

 

Hehe. In february [I forget which date] all of the ships in our navy have to lower their flags to half-staff in honour of some women killed in a univesity in montreal a number of years ago. Killed by a crazyman.
Our sailors have to be reminded every year that it was THEM [men, males] who killed those students.
Volkswagon, pot smoking hippies, indeed.

Ya know, until now, only heads of state warranted the lowering of a flag. Until this happenned, then some pot smoking volkswagon driving Ottawa Hippy decided to lay this crap on Canadian men.

We really should be hanging the flag at half staff becuase of the millions of Aboriginal Canadians who died of smallpox in 1900 and Spanish Flu in 1918/1919/1920.

ANyway, sillyness isn't a monopoly.

 

A few points:

It is fair enough that you feel like you do, and I can see why. You lived close to 'the commies' and would probably have been the first to suffer if they had expansionist plans. Although I stress if.

I dont believe the USSR had great expansionist plans, unless it was the sole superpower. In fact, the US and USSR were great counterweights for around 40 years. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, there was only one superpower (until the real advent of the EU) and still pretty much is, cos the EU is so young. That will change imo, and in time the EU will be a good balance with the US.

About your comparison between the US and the Roman Empire. Either your completely ignoring the 'in your face capitalism' that exists today, or I had credited you with more intelligence than you deserved. I assume the former, I know you are quite an intelligent guy.

There is no need these days for Empires to send their forces overseas and actually physically dominate. Instead, you let your businesses and your policies do that for you. It saves a helluva lot of manpower and military hardware. The US has political dominance in almost the whole of South America, in some parts of Asia, the same with Africa (aid is conditional of course).

As to the Europe-US thing. We are certainly more diversified imo. Intelligent? I wont go in to that argument, no one could prove one way or the other. I would say we are more tolerant, and patient. Politically we have one great advantage over the US, in that we have many heads of state and governments who run the whole shebang. The 'head' of the EU is a figurehead only. In a system with such a range of diversity there will be inevitable problems, especially with the introduction of the 10 new members who have only recently went through a major transition themselves. The whole of Europe is going through a transitional phase at the moment, both as a whole and in it's component parts. It makes mistakes, some of them really stupid. But I like the way the EU is heading and I like the whole concept of the EU, as long as each country is allowed to retain it's sovereignty, and certain other laws and stuff.

IMO, the US did do the world a great service at one time. I just think that, on FAR too many occasions, they have greatly over-exerted influence, are completely hypocritical, and have a worse record of foreign policy than Genghis Khan.

Just me two bob's worth.

 

America is always used in refrence to usa. And i us it all the time. "I',m an american" id tell someone.
But in a way ive always thought it kind of aragant that its used as such. because really usa is part of NORTH AMERICA along with mexico and canada. South amecica central america and north america are all americans in truth but u dont here any one else say it so. its Im canadin, I'm mexican, I'm brazilian .
Its somthing u here since your born so it becaomes second nature to think of ourselfs as americans. but really were United stateseins. lmao . And that sounds so lamn i think ill stick with good old I'm american.
@ biles i live 3 hours from canada. 3 hours from new jersy in new york. I consider canada just as much of a nighbor as i do new jerrsy. Lol i think most people in us anywere nere our boarded. feal that we have more of a brother to the north then a forign nation. Now mexico id feal like i was going into a forign nation more, but maby thats simply beacause its afew days away and no mexicans live near me here.

 

@biles: I know. However, lots of stuff I heard from Canadians sounds very similar to what I hear from Euros - so that either means you are working your way downwards, or we're moving upwards after all .

@allsop: Well, I never understood the focusing on US religious matters within the EU anyway. I mean, the US constitution doesn't force anyone towards religous banners anyway, does it? I think not. It might include some connections towards "God", but it doesn't really matter. There is a party that might on occasion take those matters more serious, (or rather parts of a party, i.e. the hardcore Republicans, which might include President G.W. Bush, but I think this is rather to gain a specific electorate anway), though it might matter more on inner-policy issues like birth-abortion - a nuclear armed Islamist state is not really about religion, you know, it's about survival..., but on the other hand you got the democrats who don't give much of a fuck about it at all. So how could anyone call the US "religious fundamentalistic"? This is just nonsense. The American people are free whom to vote for. This is NOT religious fundamentalism. If anyone want to condemn religous fumdantalism, better look at Iran, or Palestinians let by fumdamentalist sucide squadrons, ala Hamazh, teaching Palestinain children to conduct suicide for the sake of Islam, or, some time back, Afghanistan, until the US-led coalition freed it from the Taliban, who only used the Muslim religion for their own wealth anyway.

Regards
heartc

 

Heartc, if your going to use examples like the Taliban, better check the history of US foreign policy first

 

Yeah. Washington State is only a few minutes from me. When I go there, I feel like I am in just another bit of my home. It is like going up the valley a ways and visiting relatives.
People in Wash State don't even have that funny nasal twang so many from the USA have, they sound JUST LIKE CANUCKS, except they don't say "Eh" very often.
My mom is married to a "Yank." I have a siter who WAS married to a "Yank" they have two kids [divorced, but he still comes up for Christmas at my mom's house].
I get a kick out of it when someone says to me, "Why do you call those people 'Yanks?' that is SOOOOO insulting." See, the thing is, when a Canuck says "Yank" all he means is "Person from USA." It is an affectionate term here, in the same way a nickname you have used for a friend for years could be fighting words if someone else called him that.
A Canuck is just like a Yank, only a Canuck is hockey crazy, probably does NOT own a handgun and might know how to speak the French that was spoken in the 17th Century.

Know why Canada had the landing zone between USA and Britain at Normandy?
Because we have a bloody minded outlook a bit similar to Mad Dogs And Englishmen and at the same time, we are forward looking like our much loved Yank neighbours.

I am happy to have, as national characteristics, the very BEST of the British AND the Yanks without the very worst of either...

Salute to USA. I hope the best for your new president, whichever one it will turn out to be. You guys have a LOT on your plate. Take care, Sister!

 

@Glas:

"There is no need these days for Empires to send their forces overseas and actually physically dominate. Instead, you let your businesses and your policies do that for you."

It is a fact that there are regimes out there who don't really give a fuck about economy connected with the US. They can afford this because (and as long as, which is part of my point of co-operation with the US) they rather ally themselves with the enemies or, in lower category, opponents, of the United States. Iraq for example had quite a gamble going on with several UN members after 1991.

Further you say that the US has conducted itself worse or alike than Chengish-Khan on some foreign matters. My guess is that your are referring to Vietnam here for example. How about my perspective on this here, that Vietnam was a show towards the communist threat, which endangered much more than just South Vietnam, that the US would not sit still watching when communism tries to expand itself? I believe Vietnam was an alternate show-off to a nuclear confrontation, whereas the US showed their determinism to oppose the threat, albeit they failed in the end. Unlike North vs South Korea for example. Why is no one bitching about the Korean war nowadays? Because the US was successfull? Though understand that I think it is a prove of credence and honesty to the Western society that it accests itself in its failures rather than in its victories.

Regards
heartc

 

@Glas: You say I should reconsider on the Taliban. Has it not occured to you that times change, and that a surpressed people might be traded in as price within a war that had world-wide nuclear devastation as possible outcome? This was the COLD WAR. It's what I would rather call nowadays European hypocricy: The condemnent of US support towards the Afghanistan "regime" back in the Cold War, which several Euro states also participated in, as bargaining by the US against the Soviet Union while all of the West and, in the end, the Soviet satelite states, benifited from it in the end. It was/is dirty, no doubt. But the Cold War was a difficult game. I think too few people realize how MUCH WORSE the Cold War could have ended up. It could have ended up in a Hot War just as well. And then, we would all be back to the stone-age. Policy back then was not made by demonstrations in the streets, no matter how much those demonstration "vets" would like to see it that way. It was made by power-gaming and "who blinks first." Policy is a dirt job. It will never be clean. All you can do is to choose sides. Both will be dirty, but one will be closer to your own vision.

Regards
heartc

 

@Glas:

You wrote:"It is fair enough that you feel like you do, and I can see why. You lived close to 'the commies' and would probably have been the first to suffer if they had expansionist plans."

Hey, no worry though. Although this would makes sense, as you yourself would conclude, many of my countrymen do not think anywhere near as myself. Actually, from what I see in our media, we come right after Arabic countries and France.

Anyway, you say you stress the "if". Well, the problem is, sometimes, for example back in the Cold War, you could not afford to stress the "if", could you? Especially if you have sworn to secure the safety of your people as President of the United States for example. You know, the "if" was just a finger-tip away from the red button after all. I repeat myself here, but I think really too few people realize how CLOSE the world was to an "end" during the cold war. It was just a finger-tip. And if it would only have been within the chain of command on either side, or a breakdown of thatself - it was just a finger-tip.

Regards
heartc

 

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE POT SMOKING HIPPIES!?