fuck USA fuck Bush fuck ARMIES fuck all those enjoy watching ppl dying fucks lots all the idiots who belive the estupidity of a stupid president of a stupid country who wants to take control of the world fuck them much, theyu can win wars but they are not gonna win all the enemies who are growing are u gonna kill me too? invade my country! now i'm a danger for US like sadam? NO WAR!!!!!!!!! FUCK USA! 1st marine dead GOGOGOGOGOGOGO
Achtun, while you do have the right to badmouth the U.S., President Bush, etc., as someone who "plays" at being a warrior you could show at least a little respect for a real warrior - a marine who died in the service of his country. But then again, such a childish response is to be expected from someone who probably has never served let alone served in wartime. And that is a really compassionate response from someone who is so concerned over the loss of human lives, Iraqi lives that is... As far as invading Spain goes - no thanks, I do not even to care visit there again - at least until the Basques are treated fairly. BTW, why was the Basque party Batasuna outlawed? Sounds like oppression to me! Viva Batasuna! Texican
@achtun Please take the last sentence with the marine away. This man is also a victim of the stupid policy of this idiot Bush. His family is in the same pain as of the "free" iraqui people who will loose hundredthousands of relatives in the next years because of the consequences of this irrational and militaristic policy.
well babek, i understand u, u know i do but i'm not feeling sorry for someone who is gonna shoot to civilians (with bombs bullets or whatever) of a country who has made nothing to him before if he's tehre, he's a soldire and as US ppl says they are ready for taht, isn't it? I feel sorry for the poor ppl who dyes in irak every year because of the embargue.... well i don't want to piss off i have feelings, i'm not a mother fucker (whatever u think texican) and i'm still happy of this loose and i expect lots more to come soon, at least 1 per every civilian dead by (US bombs) OH PLS, GROW UP! the US fucking country is launching tomahawks to bagdad and they don't weant to pay any live for that???? don't be silly! this is a war! soldiers die!!!! and more are coming if u feel sorry for the marienes dead, bring them home and take care of u bussiness that is waht u should do! marines are there to die, ok?
and well, about texican, what u want me to say? we use POLICE and a non-huimoristic office (non like FBI or CIA which are for ROFL) to fight ETA terrorists and take them to prison... where we americans basque country would be invaded, and civilians killed, a guerrilla armed and after 10 years more of the same so pls, don't speak about about basque country cause i support pacific batasuna ideas
@achtun I fear that the following will happen: Saddams army will be destroyed in few days and Rumsfeld, Bush, Blair and the other idiots will babble something about a great victory, a glorious future of the free Iraq, and something about the war against terror. In fact hunderthousands will die in the next decade - and nothing will be better in Iraq. Like we can see in Afghanistan where after the "great victory" there the country was forgotten. A democracy in Iraq is impossible, because the majority of the iraqui people are shiites who have been suppressed since 1921 by the sunnite minority. Their highest authorities are the iraqui mullahs in the iranian exile. So - if there would be a fair democratic election, a shiite would win and Iraq would become amn Islamic Republic like Iran. Also the USA and GB cant give the kurdish minority more rights, because of Turkey. So they have to put an iraqui sunnite into power - a man like Saddam who has to get their support in order to keep the shiites and kurds down. And during all this time all the small factions will fight each other in order to get more power. Kurds of the Talabani-clan will fight against kurds of the PKK and against kurds of the Barzani-clan. Talabani already was in Ankara in order to make arrangements for the fight against his other iraqui kurdish rivals. Barzani will be the iranian puppet in this "game". And Turkey itself will also march into northern iraq "in order to protect the turkish minorities living there". In the south the shiites are also ready to fight. Basra is their main city. Iran has agreat interest to use them - there is even an army in Iran, which is made of iraqui shiites and who would be used in this political fight. The arab states like Saudi-Arabia or Kuwait or Jordan have a great interest that the sunnite minority keep control over Iraq. And Syria is playing its own game. So the result of the blitz-victory will be a great chaos. During the last Gulf War 100000 iraquis died in the months after the "victory". This time it will be worse. I consider these people as victims of the policy of fanatic idiots like Saddam or Bush. But I also consider the US-soldiers who die in this conflict as their victims. They die for nothing - and thats really a waste.
look at Iran...when USA (or CIA rather) put mullahs there, it was much more "comfortable" for them, but they didnt (and still doesn't ) give a.... about "human rights" there...(Iran is still the most fundamentalistic country in the middle east)...so democracy talking makes me laugh...(btw. just look at Iran's army...F16's and many other American weapons)... we (europeans, christians or whatever) won't understand their mentalilty...u have to live there for some (longer) time to get it... same happened in Vietnam...USA went to fight with ppl they didn't even know a thing about...
@HJM The USA didnt put the mullahs in Iran (at least not intentionally). They destroyed the democracy in Iran in the 50ties and replaced the democratic prime Minister with the dictator called Shah Reza Pahlavi. The CIA also helped to build the imperial iranian secret police, the SAVAK, which killed and tortured like the Gestapo the iranian civilians for decades. Then the situation went out of control and the iranians deposed the Shah. Because the SAVAK was so succesful to kill prominent democrats only the radicals had survived. And so it was no problem for Ajatollah Chomeini to establidh his rule over Iran. And the iranians had all reasons to hate the USA which had destroyed their democracy and supported the terror-regime of the Shah and his SAVAK. But they also were only victims, because now they were under the rule of the fundamentalistic mullahs. In the last decades Iran is getting out of this mullah-control. And exactly in the middle of this process to democracy its again an US-president (this time the idiot Bush) - who helps the radicals by his threatening speach of Iran as the Axis of Evil. Btw: Iran had ordered F16 but they were not delivered because of the islamic revolution. But they had (and still have) many US-equipment like F5 Tiger II, F4 Phantom or F14 Tomcat. But in the last decades Iran got more and more hightech from Russia - so these types will be replaced in the next years. In one point you are absolutely right: Americans and europeans often dont understand the people in the region. The Iranians consider Arabs as their natural enemies - and this dictated iranian policy for centuries. But many US- and european people define iranians as arabs -this alone is a great mistake.
A world rape for revolution? Just wait 40-50 years if things continue going in the same direction. Like the revolution which ended WWI and also the "cabinet diplomacy" - the gambling of the entire world by the wills of a few. quoting by memory: "Throughout the 20th century small groups of men have seized control of nations, built armies and arsenals and set out upon intimidating the weak." George W Bush Nope. If it was a mobilized army - yes. But he has chosen on his own to become a murderer. And he is not mercenary or a volunteer in a war of defence, fighting for the freedom/life/ways/etc. of his people, but in a colonial war of subjugating far lands and peoples to the profit of his masters.
Btw. This has puzzled me some time. Ex-east block countries support USA in urge that really amazes other europeans. (atleast here in finland). Why to take new master when you just got free from another? Is majority of your people willing to fight for their causes? Why NATO and USA? Is someone "selling" you to NATO? I can't understand why would your people fight US wars in future. What kind of democracy acts against the will of its people? FE. Finnish govenment has expressed opinions of majority in this respect. Iraq is sovereign nation (and member of UN) and US is offender.
Sent there by a mad man .... What do you think this man choose to die in another country ??? Have some respect the severvice men and wemen do not have a choice .... @Texican Did you want Aussie troops to go into East Timor? NO we did not want to go too timor but the U.N asked us to... It was sanctioned by the U.N not by the Yanks .... Oh and by the way WE asked the Americans to help us in timor and what did we get ....... Go fuck yourself is the words your country used. As for the other conflicts you mention only WWll was not protested in this country....This might come as a suprise but oze's are not keen on sending our troops into harms way when it is not a threat to our country..... and before you start with this B.S of Saddam Hussein selling WMD to Bin larden it was not very likly or the Yanks would have proven the link to us ( THE REST OF THE WORLD ) instead of just saying turst us ( YEAH AS IF )...
You see, someone posted about canadian democracy in some thread earlier. Here is similar. It is not democracy if votes arent 6 months near. Check UK. Blair is going for war against the majority of his people (thats according to brittish newspapers). Even despite some of his own party`s MPs (parliamentaries) going "rebel" he won the vote. He`s got party majority in the parliament, he`s having "party whips" to force them vote his will... In Bulgaria things are/have always been in the last 10 years very slightly more undemocratic. Only when really great trouble comes upon, people would bother to go to the street and scare the wits off the MPs, as it happened in 1997 (huge hyperinflation + disappearance of all kinds of food/goods from the shops + winter... government was brought down in a Milosevic like manner (actually the party who did it, was teaching the serbian opposition what to do, later)) and in 2001 (after long period of low police activity, several widely publicized heavy crimes, as well as, people shot accidently by drunk policemen, etc., finally after the murder of a taxi-drivers child, the parliament was blocked by all taxis in the coutry, they are sorta the hit-force of democracy here , later, investigation revealed it was killed by its mother, who is nuts, and all this is very very suspicious if you ask anyone, trial is still protracting... ). aah, i went away in details, but hope you can get the image better then. So before the Iraq issue becomes serious, in the beginning of autumn, ~30% supported entering in NATO, 50-something% were against it. I guess the odds now will be much more against it. BUT THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PROMINENT PARTY WHICH DOES NOT HAVE joining of NATO AS ITS 1ST OR 2ND PRIORITY IN RULING THE COUNTRY. Only other choice is communist party (true hardline communists, not former communist, now socialist party) or the like (so far we have no right extreme on the political scene I think). Yes, things like social care, even economy, etc. are 2nd to joining the NATO in everyones political programmes. Joining the EU is also 2nd, although it has maybe 90% support from the people. The socialist party was anti-NATO until 4 years ago. It paid the price to become pro-NATO to be accepted internationally and namely to get into the EUs socialist block (it had a very active and prominent young leader, who won a hard battle against his fellows on this, in order to get the Party back on the political scene, he is now President, and IMHO the only real "statesman" we have so far (the Tzar is very mysterious person and I cant comment on him)). BTW I`m very suspicious that the causes (ie economical crisis) for the 1997 coup were created by powers far and abroad, because they didnt want the socialist to govern (the international media reports were extreamely hostile ever since we elected that party in ...1995 i think?). The facts are for example that the entire grain reserve of the country disappeared mysteriously (I`m not suggesting that US marines landed one night and shipped it out, but rather sufficient funding and special agents were provided to bribe/threaten the appropriate persons to regulate, sell, etc. with the desired results), suddenly pressing demands by international finance club to pay strictly the enourmous state debt. It is easy to send a small and poor country into chaos even without bombing it. Of course the above was combined with the incapability of the government and widespread organized crime (you had "muzzles" as we call them - the guys with the big muscles and the small brains - taking care on both the input and the output end of a factory), im not quite sure if the chain reaction of bankrupting banks was domestic as well - AFAIK the mechanism was of financing of fictive, non-working/non-existing industry and then running away with the money, or it was stimulated by outside. But it all culminated in at one single time. And after the government resigned (peacefully, although it had the legitimate right to suppress the civil revolt), we introduced Monetary board, NATO and EU bacame our 1st priority, was initiated "accelerated privatizations" (guess what this is ), etc. etc. And -poof- we have stable economy, organized crime subsided (they rather have stolen enough resources to become "the new businessman"), incomes even raised after the 1997 down (my parents were earning combined ~20$ a month, now its around 300$) Now, watch. I remember when the Tzar decided to go for the parliamentary elections, at first he was talking very sensible things. When asked about NATO, he said - we have to think first how to amend the economical situation, to make our people live normally, and then we will think about international engagements. But lo and behold - 1 week after starting his electional campaign he became a very fervent proponent of NATO. He even appointed the leader of the Atlantic club (US-paid non-governmental org propaganding for NATO since early 1990s, at the time when this was as distant as landing on mars) for foreign minister! (but I admit, aside from his USA-ass-licking, which isnt much different from previous ministers, he`s doing his job much better!). As result now Bulgaria is next to USA, UK and Spain in suggesting war-mongering resolutions in the UN council. thank god most english newspapers dont find it for important enough and skip its name. **** Also there is the tradition of having "a big brother" - we did this since the XIX cent. (recently I browsed one polish book about central europe history - they have quite similar sentiments, complexes, etc. there, maybe not as much emphasized) Many people say - whatever, USA is the power, so we should stick with it, why to be on the side of the weak and the defeated?
Yes, history shows that quite well. We didn't have to take soviets side. So we made up pretty well. Rest of eastern europe had to. Look what it's like. Difference now is that eastern europe doesn't have to take sides. I think for many reasons - for bulgaria, romania, czech etc. it would be better to join EU, only. Joining EU would mean being backed up by other european countries. Economy level would increace and defence costs decreace. Joining NATO would most likely increase funds spend on defence (Ie. Purchases of NATO compliant equipment from US weapons industry. ) and increase risk of terrorism. (Someone might get angry if your soldiers were bombing them). I see bigger(military) power. But fail to see any good it would cause to ie. Bulgaria.
I wonder, what happened, if all anti-war-nations (sorry for that dumb word) would invade Iraq and fight against USA and GB etc.? Wheres then the power? Imagine, most parts of Europe, esp. Russia and also many islamic nations together could stand it, I think. I do know, they will not, but what if.... Its an interesting time. I am excited, what will be the result in 20 years! BTW: What is the japanese oppinion all about this war? Or Chinas? I never heared a statement.
As it should be done: 1 - Kill Osama and fight the terrorism 2 - Disarm Saddam army as it is now: 1 - Osama still free happy and alive but Afganisthan is now depopulated and forgotten. Something changed? not. Terrorism still present in most countries, will the dead of Osama change something? If USA governement and CIA had not created with their hands what Osama has become today, maybe Twin towers could still be to their place. 2 - The disarm got tranformend in another task, kill Saddam and war started without UN approval, against the 93% of world peaple opinion and breaking international Laws. 2a - Put with the war and violence a democracy (Pro USA) to lead Iraq. 2b - Get the control of all oil poils (as it is right now, USA Army is garrisoning all poils).
Homegrown military geniuses, social and politics experts... why oh why didn't pentagon hire you! It would put the end to all the wars and lead human civilisation to blossom ROTFLMAO
i see it similar, and.. the above is most likely some of the reasons, why, some ten years ago, the same regime has been let go on. the consequent responsibilities after a war, even if started with (questionable) good reasons, last for generations - who will take care, even if having acted with (questionable) good aims, after retiring from the job after 5 or 10 years? hi cicero, the chinese parliament has stated its disagreement with the attack of iraq resp it's regime, the (very well styled) japanese pm agrees with us-decision. at least, what i remember... in these sad days my tv is out most of the time, i am very glad to have that choice and be able to 'enjoy' my everyday's problems.
USA has informed it will put up in Irak. 1. Military rule by USA. 2. Raise government. (Propably from sunnist minority) 3. Install american "advisors" to take care of every iraqui ministers opinions. (most of these already named advisors don't even speak arabian)
economic sanctions would be the obvious and immediate consequence if any other country started an "illegal war". (as if any war was legal, but you understood) if the whole world put sanctions on the US..
