I wouldn't say A8 outturns p51, especially in long turn fight if U ever want to do such thing in 190. A8 should be faster then a4 because it had greater compression even if the engine was basically the same (higher turbo compression if I can say so). MW50 system was fitted as standard on A8 so it also was able to fly longer with engine compression even higher. Dora is broken big time here. It should turn at least as well as A8 because it had the same wings, was bit longer and was lighter, not to mention the more powerful engine which would enable to burn more energy in sustained turn so the AoA could be bit higher. Actually I think that A8 is better then D9 late in the war when U have to fight tempests, especially when red pilots expect so fucked up 190 as Dora is. 4x20+2x12 also help finish the fight before its too late . Dora is only good for jabo missions to shoot rockets at full speed and run.
An interesting thread on P-51s and 190s ... http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/fw-190-dora-9-vs-p-51d-mustang-3151.html
I'm really tired of what-we-americans-made-is-so-great-and-the-rest-sucks discussions. Pilot skill is the greatest factor. So if you suck in p51 - I'll get you. If you do a lot of mistakes in D9 - I'll get you. Being drunk is cool, but I'll get you all. Tomorrow...
If you're referring to the link I posted, actually it reads more like a German-uber-engineers-pwned-everyone discussion to me.
Actually, I see both sides arguing, but I recently watched american film about earth being threatened by large meteor, and US and USSR together launches nukes to destroy it. Of course, several russian missiles have malufuctioned and 100% of american ones were fine. Oh-so-great-americans. Most of americans do not know where Iran is, and the part of them who know is working for military, programming strategic missiles... Grrr. All I say, even this piece of crap (in FH) - dora - can be actually deadly in skilled hands. I'm not an ace, but I manage to bring some kills in it. Also, p51 is good, if you know what are you doing. It is kinda funny, that famous 190d9 is piece of junk on FH... Gold side is really lacking tempest-alike plane.
If you really like current state, where at the end of war red side has wonderfull LA7, YAK3, tempest, spit9 LF opposed to pretty good 109k4 and ki84. 190d9 is pretty useless for common gold pilot: LA7 will outrun, YAK3 will outturn/outrun, don't mention tempest and its energy retaining... I personally don't care - I fly both sides. But it is not equal.
No argument here. The Dora should be a lot more lethal than it currently is, although I wouldn't exactly call it useless, even in its present incarnation. I would, on the other hand, definitely call the 109K4 outstanding rather than just 'pretty good'. A well flown 109K is basically untouchable. Burnt off all of your E in a not so wise maneuver? No problem, K4 will accelerate back to Mach 2 in 5 seconds. %)
@Lesiu you stated "190d9 is pretty useless for common gold pilot" Well I suggest that the common gold pilot start flying the 190d9 the way it was intended. xela is an excellent pilot in this manor. He picks his target carefully or waits until his opponent has lost E dodging other golds then swoops in and whammo! Then he climbs for another attack or weps far away out of danger. I personally do not like him as a person but he is a decent stick and smart. He stays high, keeps speed up 99% of the time and lets other golds wear his opponent down 9 times out of 10. That is how it should be flown as well as many other axis aircraft. I suggest that the common gold pilot would do well to follow his example. <S> bullet
What are you talking about? Fw190 has great roll rate. Do you have your roll settings at 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10? I'm really tired of people assuming I believe history channel propaganda everytime I try to defend the p51. It is the only American plane I fly regularly, the rest of the time I am flying 109 or 190. Pilot skill hardly makes a factor if my mark is simply pointing his nose to home and relying on some flaw in the FM to get away from a faster plane. The Dora was the p51's competitor in speed, not the heavy A8 which was designed to kill bombers. That is universally known. The D9 model could use some better elev response however. That's funny, 'cause I killed him once while he was in a Ki43 by using BNZ/Energy tactics in a Spit, and he wouldn't stop bitching afterwards.
I have to agree with that, the 109K has an advantage over all other planes that lets it dictate the engagement indefinately. Planes that are just fast, but only average accellerators/climbers can only bnz the Ki84s/Spits/Yaks etc. until energy parity where it's time to bug out. Speed AND climb is just deadly and lets you hold on to the initiative indefinately until your opponent dies, or you're out of ammo. I enjoy flying the 109K frequently, but I've noticed that it hardly compresses compared to the 109G models. At 700kph the 109G controls are completely frozen, but the 109K only suffers slight degradation at that speed. This doesn't seem right, unless the germans changed something on the airframe that improved its high speed handling dramatically. I didn't know that adding a new speedometer into the virtual cockpit could actually fix a plane's handling problems. If the 109K should have a vice that an opponent can exploit, it should be it's supposed poor high speed handling, of course this is not the case here. Reds have a much larger selection of late war uber planes, but gold IMO has the best uber plane all round in the 109K. LA7s and Yaks only seem awesome if you're trying to furball with them, but they can't touch properly flown 109Ks. Imo the 190D needs to be improved, and the 190K reduced in high speed handling so golds would have Ki84, 190D and 109K as late war uberplanes for different styles of flying.
Common gold pilot is not as patient as xela. Everybody is flying 109k4 or ki84, while 190d9 is rare to see. Scoring a kill in k4 is so simple, so why should I fly that crappy d9? p0wdr - I reffered to another forum. BTW I do not support any of these planes, but I'm getting mad when someone is trying... aaah whatever, this is pointless.
Xela in Ki-43 well, the only planes I ever see him in are 109's and 190's or the Ki-84. He'll try out others for the same reason you and I would. As I also stated I don't care for his personality. But I usually see him use the tactics I described above. As a T-n-B pilot I suspect he isn't up to par, from using B-n-Z tactics. bullet
He's always in a run'o'nine or a run'one'ninety. I can't remember him actually fighting me at all - one pass and run for your life... Not much of skill really, maybe some aiming practice.
Ther is no other option for 190. B-n-Z. If you see that con evades, let's say, two first attacks - then you better disengage. Never attack without an advantage.
Skill in these planes is a lot different from in a Spit, and a lot more subtle I might add. A lot of the times it's more knowledge and experience, and using that knowledge and experience to make smart judgements, rather than instictual reflexes. Usually a TNB who gets killed from getting sucked into for example, a rope-a-dope will blame himself for being stupid, or his plane for being poor at climb rather than acknowledge opposing skill.
It's about being able to keep the advantage. You should've seen what illo was doing with a 190 - somehow it was impossible to put him on defensive. No matter what plane you were flying, he was just out of reach through the fight. While xela just runs home after first pass and that's it...