No, it meant what I said, and Zembla triggered me with his points, just as you did. Not at all, and this is one of the many things most of the anti-US league doesn't get. Read again what I said Res1441 demands. Non-compliance to that should tell the world that even when facing removal, Saddam has not changed his policy. There was a good chance otherwise, because Saddam has always put the lasting of his regime on the top of his priority list. Of course, the threat of removal got reduced due to the Veto-threateners. He now can get a nice showdown with most of the world pissing on the US. That's why the US is so mad about the UN. And as I said further above, the absolute power game has never stopped, that's why some were going for the Veto. The UN is only one card of this game, and it was the only good card the other ones had, now the US is playing their Pik As, if you will. They'd strike either way, as they did with the embassy bombings in 1998 and on 9/11. Now the US is fighting back. If you would rather sit and watch, feel free, but be sure that when you appease threats they will one day have reached a level it will cost even more lifes to fight them. But, besides removal of the threat Saddam Hussein, which I described in the postings further above, you also give a clear signal to other states that might sympathize with terrorists. Of course, that effect again gets reduced by the nay-sayers. I'm out of here, my point is set. I already had a long-lasting debate with Babek some time ago, and I'm not going to repeat that. Regards heartc
This is so SAD I think it is a failure for the human race, forget about the countries you know, using the WAR as the last way to solve a problem is the most important failure for us all... this is not just a war, this is THE war that will change the world order. A new empire using terror to seize every free man in the world with the aim of steal and use every energy resource for their own good without caring the rest of the humanity. As a human being I feel this is a failure. What kind of world will we leave to our childrens?
Well I never ruled out he supported terrorism, I even referred to it a bit in the part where I was talking about how glad he was on 11-9-01. It is known he supports terrorism, but AFAIR (and that's backed by some CIA reports I thought) he ONLY supported, meaning he provided training grounds, money, weapons, anything they need, but he would not tell them WHAT to strike, so in that way it is not connected to Saddam. I didn't mention religion anywhere I think, and I'm intent on leaving religion out of this actually... could be Bush with all his belief is doing another religious crusade though... can't be ruled out either, I mean, "God bless America"... Well, I'm not sure but that sounds like the standard reply of a supporter of the war... I mean, I haven't recently looked into the country's expenses, and I'm sure that the balance is heavily tilted towards the military and his own profit, BUT it is unnegligable that indirectly the people of Iraq suffers, it doesn't matter if it's at the cause of the embargo or because of Saddam, the embargo is imposed to keep Saddam's hands tied, as soon as Saddam is removed the embargo will be lifted, so the embargo is connected to Saddam, which means that the people will always have an embargo when Saddam is ruling them, and when Saddam rules them they will suffer because of Saddam... or is that indirectly because of the embargo? You can call me naieve but Saddam realises he can't just spend all his money on the military and expect his people to take it, they would revolt, even if his military is prepared to maintain the order it is still doubtful they would actually succeed, because most officers are married, and soldiers need to obey the commands of an officer right? The veto-threateners as you call them, aren't necessarily supporters of Saddam and his regime, they are rather the ones that are willing to try anything before going to war... You wouldn't listen anylonger either... I am still groing up so I'm still learning all these values etc but isn't a leader of a country supposed to listen to other leaders of countries and definitly supposed to attach some value to a council it co-funded and with whose rules it agreed...? International law is just a part of the values that took centuries to establish that America just put aside... Democracy took centuries to develop, and now they are giving up the main idea of democracy to establish a democracy through force? I might be naieve as you say, it's very well possible, but I like to be naieve somtimes, one can get depressed very very fast if he ain't a bit naieve... (but apart from that I try to be as not naieve as I can be) Of course I don't, I'm not THAT naieve, but it is strange to assume someone can get away with a thing like that in such a diverse world where most of the countries that are recognised seat in some sort of a council, DESIGNED to prevent a country from becoming an absolute power... notably about this is that America itself is always talking about "democracy" and how good theirs is, and how much they want other nations - not known with the type of government - to know the virtues of democracy and all kinds of freedoms... While it are now exactly they that have interpreted freedom to an intollerable extent, not to mention that they are going to install a democracy by force, boy that's almost a contradictio in terminis, and we all now what happened last time when they tried to do that... An evil dictatorship, sounds like lord of the rings to me... an evil dictatorship is not by definition a threat to surrounding countries, ok it is known Saddam is definitly a threat, but I don't approve the fact that they're just openly interfering with foreign regimes' policies etc, regardless of the fact it's Saddam's regime... Glad to know, don't hit that pole next to the sidewalk -=<*>=- Just my opinion... thx for the arguable compliment btw (which was later on nullified by the insult but then again, a man can't have everything) greetze, Zembla P.S. Seeing you have already replied while I was replying to you, I am now updating my post, in the hope you'll read it at all, because you just said you wouldn't check back here... As for the reasons terrorists attack nations it is sometimes a bit unclear, and what appears to be the reason so crystal clear, might just be a diversion to reach another goal. I think you're misunderstanding the stance of Germany, France and Belgium, all three have a waaaaay longer history in war than the USA, and they want to prevent countries from going through what they have gone through, their goal is also to disarm Saddam, and to establish democracy, and to continue the war against terrorism, but invading a country can hardly be done under the cover of an alleged war against terrorism... I might be mistaking, maybe you do see the stance of the nay-sayers the right way. When the world was in shock on 11-9-01 Bush got much allies because of the scale and the civil target of the operation that his country suffered from. Now we're about one and a half year farther, and he's exploiting the attack to make sure he can achieve what he always dreamed off... America now uses the argument that they are cutting away a threat to western society, well I must say I haven't seen much sky scrapers blow up in my area recently[forgive my cynism], I don't really believe the terrorists are attacking the west, they are more likely attacking America, because the west in general isn't running around the globe playing super-country-cop... so it now is America's war, and I'm still against the fact they are invading a COUNTRY in the war against TERRORISM (which is an invisible almost undefinable -definitly unkillable- enemy), but it's THEIR war, not OURS
Oh, come on! Does this make sense? Now, isn't it you who draws "Good" and "Evil"? Evil US who don't understand what war means and good others who want to prevent countries from going through it. They wouldn't have eased the pressure on Saddam if it was so. Gerhard Schroeder won the last election closely, and it's questionable wether he had if he wouldn't have ruled out war. Anyway, now this fool is down to 27% support, those simplistic diplomacy pacifists this country is full of are his daily bread, and he is theirs (even though opposition to war here is about 85-90%, this should say something about Schroeder's skills in inner-policy.) As I said, the game is on and you choose sides. And be sure it will be YOUR war very quickly once the terrorists DECIDE SO. I don't want my country to get blackmailed / hindered when it makes decisions some terrorist sob/terrorist state has a problem with. And I don't give a fuc* about why some rich bastard like Osama blows up a civilian target or gasses my people. This IS a war between them and us. Now damaging the alliance the way my government has done on the current issue is a no-go for me and works for the terrorists, not for us. And Gerhard Schroeder is not Germany alone, the leader of the opposition Angela Merkel has supported the Ultimatum from Bush, which doesn't make her any more popular here, so I guess she has some deep concerns about it, just as me, and hopes for the people to understand that this is not an issue of patriotism to kick US' ass now, nor an issue of peace, nor a neccessity from our history (this doesn't make any sense at all anyway, since we were freed from Hitler by war. So, if we learned that war cannot solve problems, we learned wrong. It's not the weapon, it's the owner, that's what I learned). Also they didn't rule out war from the beginning. BTW, I did not continue this, I just indicated that I have read you . But, the next time, the indication will be invisible . And, as far as insulting goes - I didn't mean to insult you, sorry, actually I don't exactly know what you're referring to. Regards heartc
First of all, Benjamin8 the country is IraQ dumbass! Right away i just knew you were some ignorant little slug because you cant even spell the name of a country whose name is in the news only about 5000 times a day!. About the rest of the drivel you posted, if you don't like U.S. policy, I can respect that but when you start calling all U.S. citizens "weirdest freaks", "nutcases", "prisoners and unwanted peoples" with "criminal genes" and "liar genes" you have gone to far. And the you have the gall to say "no personal offence inteded"!!! So you shit all over me and the country that I love despite the faults that it has (as ALL counties do!) and then say no offence!?!?!?! Well, to that I reply "Fuck you, your mama, the dog that fucks her and your sisters' pimp!".... but hey, no personal offence intended. By the way dickhead, what perfect country are you from, that you are too ashamed to put it in your profile? And what have YOU ever done to promote peace?What have you done about anything except to insult people and their countries? Clean up your house first, then talk about mine. I have really tried to stay calm in the face of all the U.S. bashing that goes on here but I'm really getting sick of it. I come here to get away from all the shit that's on the news 24/7 and then some ignorant waste of sperm has got to spew forth his personal hatred of his own loser self cloaked as hatred for other people. Just STFU you little balless pansey. You got a problem with me, my country, or anybody else then DO something about instead of whining like a little girl. Disrespectfully yours, Robert T. Shepherd Malabar, Florida United States Of America
@Beerm. "Irak" is the correct spelling in german (doesn't mean he isn't an "ignorant slug" though, he should know when trying to debate in international waters, also it indicates he's never tuned in CNN or something, relying only on our media, which often make me laughing the crap out of me with their no-idea-about military whatsoever and things like: Bush: "...or face military conflict" translated as "...or face nuclear conflict" rofl), and in addition with his name, which is also typically german, I guess he is one of the many in my country with brilliant argumentation on America. I'm sorry. I hope we will overcome this Anti-Americanism. This IS NOT GOOD. I have some hope it will happen when the opposition wins the next election in 2006 and turns things back to reality, if not earlier.
How is Iraq spelled in Arab? I don't think you can start arguing about the spelling of it, I say Anvers to a very Flemmish town too... (Anvers is the French name of it...) so... it's inter-used... BTW, we're actually just trying to figure out who's the biggest a-hole... well I am anyways, call me what you want, I support neither, 'n don't like either views, but right now Bush is being the biggest Bush or Saddam? greetze, Zembla
Well beerme ,there ARE other languages in the world ...can you believe it? Hey that's great to hear your intellect view,but I must tell you that there are news shown in other parts of the world too ..USA is not the whole world. Thank you I didn't call anyone anything! I just asked!! try read it 1 more time ,helps you understand when you do that ...btw Did I call you prisoners? I just said lot of prisoners were transferred to North America. And I said the culture is based on faking and acting ..but in 'kind of way' ..(btw, can you spell 'peoples' ? yes? ) Huh ,you are a sick puppy ...did you get your relief now ? Feel better ? I consider myself as citizen of a world here ..ok? How about you? You don't sound like a peacemaker to me.Make peace with violence? Any tips for me? join US military maybe? No need to insult,I just say what I think. LOL what was who doing? I hope you don't act like that in RL cause it can cause you problems.Ever tried some agressive-control course or something?(Like Homer Simpson) (Sorry sarcasm) Maybe Drop a valium and think things over and Look things as they ARE. Your insults are all insignificant to me ,you just show how great big man you are yourself.Sounds like 20 something... -Benjamin8
Hmm ..All that comes to my mind is Frank Zappa's "Dumb All Over" Worth to listen imo. Whoever we are Wherever we're from We shoulda noticed by now Our behavior is dumb And if our chances Expect to improve It's gonna take a lot more Than tryin' to remove The other race Or the other whatever From the face Of the planet altogether They call it THE EARTH Which is a dumb kinda name But they named it right 'Cause we behave the same... *We are dumb all over* Dumb all over, Yes we are Dumb all over, Near 'n far Dumb all over, Black 'n white People, we is not wrapped tight Nurds on the left Nurds on the right Religous fanatics On the air every night Sayin' the Bible Tells the story Makes the details Sound real gory 'Bout what to do If the geeks over there Don't believe in the book We got over here You can't run a race Without no feet 'N pretty soon There won't be no street For dummies to jog on Or doggies to dog on Religous fanatics Can make it be all gone (I mean it won't blow up 'N disappear It'll just look ugly For a thousand years...) You can't run a country By a book of religion Not by a heap Or a lump or a smidgeon Of foolish rules Of ancient date Designed to make You all feel great While you fold, spindle And mutilate Those unbelievers From a neighboring state TO ARMS! TO ARMS! Hooray! That's great Two legs ain't bad Unless there's a crate They ship the parts To mama in For souvenirs: two ears *(Get Down!)* Not his, not hers, *(but what the hey?)* The Good Book says: *("It gotta be that way!")* But their book says: *"REVENGE THE CRUSADES... With whips 'n chains 'N hand grenades..."* TWO ARMS? TWO ARMS? Have another and another Our God says: *"There ain't no other!"* Our God says *"It's all okay!"* Our God says *"This is the way!"* It says in the book: *"Burn 'n destroy...* *'N repent, 'n redeem* *'N revenge, 'n deploy* *'N rumble thee forth* *To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side* *'Cause they don't go for what's in the book* *'N that makes 'em BAD* *So verily we must choppeth them up* *And stompeth them down* *Or rent a nice French bomb* *To poof them out of existance *While leaving their real estate just where we need it* *To use again* *For temples in which to praise OUR GOD* *("Cause he can really take care of business!")* And when his humble TV servant With humble white hair And humble glasses And a nice brown suit And maybe a blond wife who takes phone calls Tells us our God says It's okay to do this stuff Then we gotta do it, 'Cause if we don't do it, We ain't gwine up to *hebbin!* (Depending on which book you're using at the time...Can't use theirs... it don't work ...it's all lies...Gotta use mine...) Ain't that right? That's what they say Every night... Every day... Hey, we can't really be dumb If we're just following *God's Orders* Hey, let's get serious... God knows what he's doin' He wrote this book here An' the book says: *He made us all to be just like Him," so... If we're dumb... Then God is dumb... *(An' maybe even a little ugly on the side)* a
The answer to that would also be NO! But you forget one very major difference......that action was UN sanctioned. Unlike the current conflict which is not. Regards, Oz
UN Resolution 1441 WAS sanctioned. We and our allies are merely upholding the decree, because we have the courage, and the wealth, and the will, and determination to save ourselves... and the world. If we can A new world economy is soon to change the human relationship. We are becoming brothers Have HOPE world. We ALL want the same basic things in life. A chance to raise our families in peace and health. There is enough wealth in the world to provide these basics for all. Saddam had unlimited wealth at his call. He should have invested in the Iraqi people. The USA, and any that believe as we do...will.
srry heartc, you use the wrong banner, this people need our solidaritдt, the childs and women in this country and not this stupid ppl in USA were agressor and kill friendly ppl, i agree 20% of ppl in usa were not for this war, but for 80 other percent i can only say one f*****ck you, shame on you, bye mosche allah and god bless all iraq pplґs
lol, good one deep truth in it to benjamin : your question about genes - u are right that people who were migrating to America during last 400 yrs were quite specific people. However these people were not mostly criminals. But that doesn't matter because this wouldn't affect their descendants. Genes are not essential in forming someone character. Moreover USA are big melting pot - genes were mixed there in huge scale and that is very good - that is actually bettering genes base of that nation. (just f. e. compare isolated Scotland and crossroad called France) But.. particularity of immigrants to America has of course determined what USA are now. These simple puritan people created society based only at ideals of new reformed Christianity -- so based on work and money. They have shrinken their view of world to simply economical (and in hand with that nationalistic and patriotic) point. Newcomers in next centuries adapted to this culture with ease - because of its simplicity and because of possibilities this system brought them - compared to the situation they had left in Europe (they were usually peasants or workers starving back at home). Few of so called intelectuals left to America - it was not enough to raise US cultural level. Outcome - present culture and way of thinking of US ppl. It is very simplified and very restricted type of "western culture". It seems very ridiculous to Europeans but Europeans should stop laughing and start to panic - this lost child of their culture came back home and is telling its parents how it is good and parents, delighted by successes of its children, are listening!
Yeah, sure.....that's why the US & UK were pushing for a new resolution to allow the use of force. And why they, and the silly little DH running my country, are now saying the war is legal due to earlier resolutions (circa 1991). 1441 doesn't even rate a mention in the so-called justification. If 1441 sanctioned the use of force, there would have been no need for the globe-trotting of the last weeks in the lead-up to conflict. There would also be more nations supplying troops to help in the battle. Even Spain, which is supposedly a part of 'the coalition of the willing', AFAIK, has not provided any military might to the conflict. But, the above arguments aside, I think the biggest load of BS of the whole situation so far is that 'the coalition' is using Kuwait as a base for its' attack, and yet they have provided only 10% of that population with protection from the weapons they are claiming this is all about. Thanks for allowing us on your land, but don't expect any help from us. Then there's the threats against anyone caught sabotaging the oil supplies......don't get me started. regards, Oz
All U have is a little cowboy, who likes to shoot his guns to make some noise. Too bad, he got the biggest guns of the world. I don't want any world domination. Sure, USA will only invest in Iraq's oil! The poor remainder of UN will have to invest for its people. What do U think,why Bush sent its troops into the country? He could have killed Saddam and his sons by assassins as well. But he wanted to be present in that area to get the biggest piece of the cake. I wonder how long he trained for his folds of sorrow on the forehead as he spoke to your nation. This is your worst president since his father (or Nixon). Its a damn lier! Kennedey could be killed, why can't he?
Game set and match y attack if it is going to happen any way??? 1441 gives the wepons inspecters the right to distroy anything the consider in breach of res 660.... so why dose there have to be an army to achive the same thing????? Take a look at what 1441 realy says http://ods-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N02/682/26/PDF/N0268226.pdf?OpenElement
If they are going to strike anyway, then the current action is pointless. If you don't go around pissing people off, you have nothing to worry about.....governments should learn that. Just a little bit hypocritical coming from someone whose country has a military budget big enough to support a medium sized country, and yet people are starving and living on the street. And you should know all about propaganda..... Regards, Oz
