I'm starting to lose track of the number of separate fights we got going on in this thread at the moment ...
I must (well, not must-must, but still want to ) disagree. Oversteering for the corner is easy to do, especially on the gravel/snow conditions, probably on tarmac too if one has enough power on car. Even with the front wheel driven car (handbrake), but to make the car understeer? How? Only I can think of is going into corner really really fast.... (in situation that the car is ...well... neutral by nature... ) btw, Schumi never tried 4wd F1. Who knows how great he would've been with that. And Häkkinen is the greatest one. Or maybe Mansell...
For the moment I'll contend myself to (strongly) disagreeing with you. What it is that I'm actually disagreeing about with you I don't know yet ... but we can defer that until later.
Like I said; using the brakes and/or power, shifting the weight as you need it. Of course this would require some pre-planning or there may be a situation where you would need to do such a thing. With those sorts of input the line through the corner is going to be different. Again IMHO I do not think anyone could make a 4X4F1 go any better than any regular F1 because of the rules. A 4X4 is going to weigh much more and there are bound to be problems with aerodynamics. So unless there would be drastic changes to the rules in terms of minimum weight, engine displacement , wheel and tire sizes and/or aerodynamic allowances there will be no advantage of a 4X4. Hummm , Hakkinene, nope I disagree. Mansell even worse! Of all the Finns, my fav. is Marku Allen! Then KeKe Rosberg F1 drivers of those years for me Gilles Villeneuve.
Heretic. Mansell would've driven circles around G.Villeneuve. Häkkinen would've not. He would've left them behind long before....
HA HA HA...... If it weren't for Patrese, Mansell would be some second rate bar bouncer. He couldn't even come close to Giles Villeneuve. Even Enzo Ferrari himself said that Villeneuve was the best Ferrari F1 driver post WW2. Häkkinen was cocky and talked the talk but when it came to actual talented driving he didn't come close. Did you notice that when he really had to start driving as the other cars neutralized the mechanical/technical advantages of the team, he started to lose it mentally. Finally he quit/retired because he was over his head. I'm glad in that way because he didn't get himself killed nor anyone else injured like certain other drivers before him. I was looking forward to see him racing when I first saw him. He sounded cool and methodical. I was very disappointed as his career progressed. It was sad to see him fall apart mentally. I still like Marku Allen!!!!
Ayrton Senna is faaar ahead of Mansell, Villeneuve (or anyone else in that matter). He was great. So, shutup. Watch stupid daytona races. With cars able to turn in one direction. Don't touch real motorsport. And no. There is no motorsport in US or Canada.
Senna was one of the greatest, yes, and FAAAR above Mansel, but he was no where close to Giles Villeneuve, sorry. He was not very smart either. You remember Monte Carlo? Where he BLEW IT racing against Prost? Unfortunately they were not really of the same period in racing so all we can do is speculate. It would have made for some fantastic racing. YOU shut-up yourself. I have NEVER raced stock cars! I raced Formula Ford and Formula 3/Formula Continental, Alfa Romeo and Fiat-Abarth to name a few.
@lesiu and loose: Relax guys, you're both wrong Villeneuve doesn't have the merits to be named "the best ever". He could have been, if he wouldn't made that one critical error... And Senna, though great, was natural driver. He was born with the gift. BUT! Mansell had to learn the race car driving. He had to work harder than Senna for example. And still he made great races (Like in Hungary -89 f.e.) And winning CART-serie in his rookie year is nice extra in his career.... (If Mansell sucked, how bad are the other CART drivers then? ) @loose: I guess we have to agree that we disagree about Häkkinen. I've never seen any of those qualities that you mentioned in him. btw, Monte Carlo = Monaco GP
Ha ha.... well of course we agree that we disagree. It is sharing our views of the why and how we disagree that is the fun part, no? Again, Giles Villeneuve sad to say died early in his career. Those races that he did participate in were spectacular. Again for the times and the machinery; those were some of the most powerful and fastest F1 cars ever. So sure, there's a limit. But remember Villeneuve was world champion snowmobile racer. Senna had a natural talent, so do a lot of racers, but look at his kart racing, beaten by Prost and others. It's what he did and how he used that "natural" talent. Also, Senna had a considerable financial backing. It is not so much that Mansel had to "learn" that it was handed over to him. He was and is a slob of the first order. His pre-Ferrari days of fame was ONLY on the shoulders of Patresse- a man who was a FAR better driver than Mansel ever could be. If you haven't noticed the British in F1 racing are the biggest group of back stabbing bastards in history of the sport. Remember the Alan Jones/ Carlos Reuteman screw-job? They killed Rindt, They killed Senna. They raised Jones and Mansel by screwing others.(stories for another time.) Too bad we can't go back to all the Hakkinen interviews and films of him getting in and out of the cars and what he said that wasn't broadcast. Don't get me wrong. I really like the guy. He was very good in the beginning and had the right attitude and showed (what I think) the characteristic of a great driver. But later he just fell apart. Like I said as the technical advantages of his team were developed equally or near equally by the other teams and the difference between winning and losing was more determined by driver ability, poor Mika was just stressed-out too much and he couldn't handle it. I was watching closely because I liked him. Later I started to notice the cracks in the armor. OH YES. Mansel sucked and like I've always said: The most mediocre F1 driver can come in ANY DAY and embarrass most of the Indy/CART drivers. Look at it the other way: How many cart drivers came to F1 and did anything worthy of mention? Answer: Mario Andretti. If you can find a copy of the last US Grand Prix in Long Beach. Look at the race with Lauda and Andretti. Yes, It is the Monaco GP. In the city of Monte Carlo. OH, I want to add something about Villeneuve: Somewhere in Youtube there should be a film of Villenueve sliding his Ferrari. It is the most unreal thing a racer or driver can imagine, or maybe not imagine. Those cars had around 3,000lbs of down-force from the aerodynamics of the body venturis when going straight forward. Villeneuve managed to slide his car sideways down a straight. The sudden reduction of drag : minus 3,000lbs, makes for a VERY different power to weight ratio. You seen in the film that the Ferrari, now sideways is ACCELERATING down the track. Did you ever see Villeneuve drag race the F104? He won. That is one of my points. It took a driver of some near unearthly talent to exploit to the fullest a F1 car so radically different than the traditional F1 characteristics.
Senna died for overtrying. Sad still... I guess Häkkinen got unmotivational after his crash (in australia?). Prolly his wife gave some extensive nagging too. Enough to break a good man (btw, he's divorcing, and got some german exotic dancer to comfort him.... man's getting back from the land of the dead..... )
did you ever see The Stig drag race the harrier? he won. did you ever see Richard Hammond drag race the eurofighter? he lost but it was a more difficult race did you ever see the viper drag race the viper? the jet won (barely) point: the f-104 is no eurofighter (or f-16)
Did you ever see an ant carry a rubber tree plant? http://www.airplanedriver.net/study/f104.htm point: there was no euro fighter there was no viper when there was Villenueve/Ferrari and F104. Keep the discussion to within the context of previous posts and don't bring non-relevant comparisons. No one said the F104 is the fastest fighter jet today. Did you bother to share the actual acceleration rate of any of the other aircraft or cars you are making reference? Does the F16 or eurofighter accelerate faster than +7.33g under mach 1.9 at sea level? In order to beat the F104 it will have to do better than that. Thank you for sharing by the way.
yes "Acceleration Limits Below 1.9 Mach + 7.33 / - 3.0 W < 5000 Int Fuel" what acceleration do u think ur source refers to? if u think its linear acceleration (drag racing) u are quite mistaken i know the f-16 can sustain 9g and im quite sure the eurofighter can do even better really though the gap between the f-104 and the eurofighter/f-16 is much greater than the gap between the best drag racing car from 1981 (villeneuve) and present day (top gear vids) and the dodge viper (not the best car for the job, btw) just barely lost to the f-16 the point? beating an f-104 in 1981 does not prove a driver is the greatest
That's funny. I thought the comparison was to give us an idea of what that car was capable of and not the driver. Even though Villeneuve was shifting through five gears with a lever and not paddles. It does not matter if cars and airplanes are faster now than in 1981. The fact remains that it was a very impressive video and demonstrates the performance of a Ferrari F1 car. I will indulge you in your non-relevance: You said; "best drag racing cars-Villeneuve": Ferrari 126C is not a drag racing car, nor was he a drag racer. Dodge viper is not a very good car for any job anyway AND it lost. The Ferrari won.
Yes, Villeneuve was good, but that silly drag race doesn't prove it. What he did on the track proved it, and sometimes these crazy but very talented guys die on the track. I personally didn't like neither Senna nor Villeneuve as a person - at least from what I have seen and heard from them, which is not much - but I liked Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart, Alain Prost, Niki Lauda, Michael Shcumacher (took some time to accept him and realize he's not just a twit) and I like Lewis Hamilton and Robert Kubica too. They are that calm and humane kind, they have lots of held back talent because they don't try to push it over the limits, at least that's what I observed. Häkkinen, D. Hill, Alonso, even Raikkönen, I think they were just at the right place in the right time (with the right amount of money). Don't bother with an incredibly long reply, looseleaf. I know you strive for acceptance, but the way you do it is very pathetic. Be yourself instead, whatever you really are can't be that bad anyway.
