Latewar planes available with streack only

Hi Bytor,

>IMO most pilots here cannot effectively defeat a BnZ attack for long anyway. I see no reason to reward streaks to even further widen the gap.

That's an "everything else being equal" argument. However, everything else is NOT equal. The players will rise to the challenge and improve their skills. The gap between the skilled players and "most pilots here" will not widen, it will grow narrower.

The skilled pilots are few in between - most of the times an mediocre pilot gets killed, he gets killed by another mediocre. Skill is distributed on a Gauss curve.

How do you convince someone that it's worth the trouble to try and improve his skills? You offer a reward. (Basic psychology!)

That's just what the streak restriction does - it offers a reward for people who are successful, and thus encourages the average player to try and become an above average player!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

I've had some of my best simulation experiences with 80286 with 8mhz RAM.

In online sims it's player attitude which makes difference between sim and game. What offers good sim are places like CA in AH and some FH scenarios (recent ones had too much troubles).
AH main arena is propably most dis-immersive place to fly online. And yes, it's much more popular than CA.

AH2 and mission arena sounds too good to be true. I truely hope it will live.

 

Now on one of my previous posts Odi got mad at me for implying the streak restriction was going to be for the whole ToD and pointed out in was only to restrict late war "Uberplanes".

Hohun, stop changing the goalposts or has it reached the point that you yourself have lost the point of what this thread is about.

Anyone you're forgetting new planes are already restricted to some extent, being only available at big fields when introduced before filtering down to small fields.

I can think of plenty of other ways that don't make new players or those specialising in performing other tasks (such as flying Ju52's) feel victimised.

I don't know where you're flying, or maybe your long absense from the arena has clouded your perception of the people who fly there but you seem to think the whole arena is full of people flying into the ground or being suicidal. I challenge you to prove that this is the case with some actual figures or examples because I and many others don't see this.

And what are the ingredients of real life in a computer game if not those things that Ozmale has stated. Why are developers working hard to produce games that have more of the features of the world around you (like IL2 with clouds etc) or have all those millions of people, developing, marketing, buying these games got it wrong. I think you're confused between reality and fantasy, remember at the end of the day you're sitting in front of a monitor and using a keyboard to play a game of skill, not strapping yourself into a cockpit of a WW2 warplane with the chance of dying stacked heavily against you.

The most popular game in the world currently is "the simms", one of my neighbours has what I would describe as a rotten marriage, yet he has simms and spends his time trying to build the perfect family life in the game (he's even named his family as per real life) instead of trying to confront the problems of his marriage and improve his life in the real world he's hiding behind a game. This is called delusional fantasy and I'm beginning to be concerned that you're suffering from a similar state of mind.

The basic idea of Warbirds is for people to enjoy themselves in a game of skill in co-operation with others, it wasn't designed as a simulator or to be realistic purely because this would only be attractive to a minority of the public (the hard core flight simms) by simplifying the flight models and giving the "arcade" element to the game ensured it appealed to a wider audience and brought in more revenue to IEN.

Flight simms based on Realism have been many and yet not one of them remains popular today because at the end of the day people want to have fun not spend 48 hours just learning the keys and how to take off.

Malino

 

Hi HoHun
'How do you convince someone that it's worth the trouble to try and improve his skills? You offer a reward. (Basic psychology!)

That's just what the streak restriction does - it offers a reward for people who are successful, and thus encourages the average player to try and become an above average player! '

I think that most pilots ARE trying to survive and improve. Its too basic psychology. We are mostly by nature pridefull and vain. We WANT to win! I think what many of you see as 'not trying to survive', is rather simply a failure on the individualsperformance due to lack of skill and experience. I think hardly any of us are dying by design. Ex. someone taking a HO shot is likely just out of ideas due to lack of skill, experience.
Remember that the learning curve is very steep in WBFH due to the immense experience that many of the vets have.
There are guys that fly literally HUNDREDS of sorties every TOD for YEARS on. What you may percieve as not trying to survive is likely a failed attempt to do exactly that!

 

Sigh,

Only a minority will stay and learn, the large majority will go elsewhere where they can enjoy themselves more without having to be pressured into learning the game according to your rules. Think, even out of those pilots who've been playing Warbirds a number of years are still only average or above average. All the true aces that have come along (the pilots who've achieved what we would deem the impossible) have a natural aptitude for the game.

Basic Psychology, in a gaming enviroment you offer a challenge to someone to "convince" a person to improve their skills. In real life you offer a reward to someone in order to get them to do something they wouldn't otherwise do, that reward generally being of the materialistic nature (money, sex, fame) because otherwise they'd tell you to piss off.

We have the challenge already, e.g. improving your skills so that the next time you bump into bobby you shoot him down not vice versa. A better example of this is the Pietas case, the challenge was to shoot him down, the reward was rubbing his nose in it, Pietas has squelched about 30 players in the arena now and probably wishes he's never typed the word "DIE", the rest of us have been laughing our heads off, but boy was the reward worth it


Malino

 

LOL! Now it's my turn to thank you for a good laugh, HoHun! That line has just become in instant classic in my head.

Regards,
heartc

 

However FH doesn't have to care about revenue so it has option to offer what others can't.

I've never ever seen too realistic game. Time spend for learning is most fun for me so it's just our (also Ho-Huns) different preferences. No need to offend anyone.


Maybe there's something damaged in my brain to make me think so. Anyway im glad it's the way it is.

 

Explain the remaining popularity of games like: Falcon 4.0, Flanker 2.x, Jane's F/A-18 F-15

Il2? (also pretty much keys for a WWII sim)

<Z>

 

whatever

 

And FH doesn't need to be popular since it's not commercial.

Btw. Zem did you ever play Falcon 3.0? I think it was pretty good back then when it came.

Falcon and Flanker are still so popular because there are so few of such sims. Most of sim freaks will get em and play them for years on. Because it's really rare that someone does another hi class sim.

Player base for such simulations are slim and extremely dedicated compared to some popular games like SIMs. Latter is more of game consumer type of game just one of many in line to keep away boredom.

 

Some reviews from popular magazines:

Janes and Flanker:

EA surprised us pleasantly with their newest flight simulation F/A-18. It comes as true refreshment after Flanker 2.0, which proved to be a too early edition of a non-optimized and extremely demanding simulation --- a disappointment to players and a provocation to reviewers (look up the reviews on the web and see for yourself).

Review of the new Jane's Simulator F/A-18. Let's start off by saying this is the one of the most complex simulations that has come out since Falcon 4.0. The Realism of this Simulation is by far the best that I have ever seen.

I couldn't find a review of Flacon 4 but I remember it well.


I agree they were beautiful games but I think you'll agree with me in saying they were only appealing to hard core players because they were just tooo complicated for the majority of players.

Lets face something simms just arn't popular to the majority, look at the games everyones playing and hard core simms just can't compete:

http://zone.msn.com/blog.asp

LOL, at the time I'm looking there Mah Jong tiles has 12854 players and CFS has 90 players, people just prefer challenging yet simple to learn and play games over complicated ones.
Malino

 

P.S. Bejeweled is my favourite when I want to relax a little, try it good fun.

Mal

 

THEY WERE NOT INTENDED TO BE APPEALING TO MASSES THANK GOD

Realeasing Falcon and Flanker series was great unselfish act from devs that really loved simulation. Not pull to gain maximum income with minimum work load.

Btw. All (two) finnish game mags have given (scale from 1-100) Falcon 3.0 over 97 points. Falcon 4.0 over 95 points. Su-27 over 90 points. Most games score around 70 so they have had very very good reputation here in finland. (in finnish games/computer mags simmers will review sims etc.) Big british game mags (ie. PC Format) are kind of jokes here. Their reviewers are sometimes totally ignorant about genre. They are often reviewing some prerelease beta versions (to get earliest review to boost sales) and doing huge HYPE (based on ADS from developer) from games they have actually never even seen. Well actually it's quite profitable way and similar maggs have appeared in finland in last 5 years... though yet without any success. Our 2 old compture/game mags Mikrobitti and Pelit have just too well informed and dedicated reader base.

Ie. Grendel has reviewed many of those sim reviews in finnish games magazines. He interviews real WW2 pilots etc. Collects stories and history from veterans. How will some PC format dude will compare?

http://icebreakers.compart.fi/home.html

 

LOL,

I'm not a number I'm a free man!!!


Know where it comes from and what it means??? If you do then you're as sad a bastard as me


Mal

 

Iron maiden?

 

EFalcon

Flacon 4 is a sim!!!!!!!!!
Efalcon is an even better sim!:

Hehe NOW I have a new OS, and Falcon 4 sits in my filing cabinet. I think it is time to dust it off, install it, wrestle through all of the USER MADE add-ons, allowing me to fly in Vietnam in the sixties or Israel and Jordan in the seventies, or afghanistan in the eigties, and see how far along this new OS has come in making my frame rates a little better - For an extremely demanding sim, I can pull 25 fps in a roaring busy deadly nasty battle, with tanks and infantry and shipping beneath me and F4 Phantoms above me (cure those Yanqui Imperialist Bastards).
I bet I can get twice the FPS I got before.
Thousand page fucking manual and I will have to read it all again.
It was a hell of a deal for ten bucks at the radio shack.
Any you guys want to join me? I ain't in a squad becuase I didn't take the time to perfect my skills (WHAT skills?). But I am thinking I may take the time now.

(It's my birthday and I will try anything to keep from sliding into an evil mid-life crisis)

 

Hi Malino,

>>Just to avoid misunderstandings: The streak restriction system can be applied to the entire tour of duty starting on day one.

>Now on one of my previous posts Odi got mad at me for implying the streak restriction was going to be for the whole ToD and pointed out in was only to restrict late war "Uberplanes".

No contradiction there: The streak restriction CAN be applied for the entire tour of duty starting on day one. And I'm not Odi.

>>The streak restriction rule is the way to begin the changes.

>I can think of plenty of other ways that don't make new players or those specialising in performing other tasks (such as flying Ju52's) feel victimised.

Then do I'm always open for new ideas!

>Anyone you're forgetting new planes are already restricted to some extent, being only available at big fields when introduced before filtering down to small fields.

As you probably know, jets are available on big fields only which doesn't impress anyone at all. You're to go by streaks to achieve a real restriction. Or come with up some other smart idea - you're invited to!

>I challenge you to prove that this is the case with some actual figures or examples because I and many others don't see this.

Ozemale is my example. He actually threatens that the game goes down the drain if he isn't allowed to continue with an Ьberplane after each kamikaze death

>And what are the ingredients of real life in a computer game if not those things that Ozmale has stated.

Fear for your life Plain and simple!

Fortunately, everyone of you has pointed out how great the streak restriction would work for that. I think you're overestimating the value of the streak restriction, but that it would have a noticable effect on making the players "fear for life" factor more realistic seems to be a point where we actually agree.

The difference is that you don't want to have to fear for your life - and that means you don't want to improve realism in an area where the game needs improvement badly.

>This is called delusional fantasy and I'm beginning to be concerned that you're suffering from a similar state of mind.

When it comes to delusion: You're the one arguing that death should be without consequences, and I can't think of anything more deserving of the label "delusional fantasy" than that

>Flight simms based on Realism have been many and yet not one of them remains popular today because at the end of the day people want to have fun not spend 48 hours just learning the keys and how to take off.

I'm not talking about keys, I'm talking about the fear of death.

Translate it into "fear of losing the streak" for the game - this is the exact parallel, and if you browse back through this thread, you'll see enough calcified whining to prove that it'll work as intended.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

Nope, but the song is also based on it (the thing I mean)


Mal

Glas I know you'll know so don't give it away to quick

 

Hi Bytor,

>I think that most pilots ARE trying to survive and improve. Its too basic psychology. We are mostly by nature pridefull and vain. We WANT to win! I think what many of you see as 'not trying to survive', is rather simply a failure on the individualsperformance due to lack of skill and experience.

Ozemale's case for being allowed to kamikaze without consquences proves otherwise. And if you've seen how many players take a head-on attack on any opportunity they get, they're either unconcerned (like some people in my squadron) or very, very slow learners.

Offer a reward, and they'll become concerned, and their learning pace will quicken.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

Hmmm, this is probably one of the biggest contributing factors to field captures late war where Golds try and make sure they have big well protected fields at the end of the game so they can fly 262's and Reds try there hardest to make sure either the golds don't have the fields or if they do the feul is nearly permanently down meaning you need a streak 5 or more to fly the 262.


Mal