@allsop.... You probably haven't notice that you're no different to these so called "freedom fighters" aka terrorists. All your sayings and all your opinions are just mirror reflections of boys that grew up in Gaza or west bank. You're talking about your country and your families. How many carbombs have exploded in Seattle? Or in Washington State for that matter? Don't you see the similarities? If an individual has this obsession to become a terrorist, he'll use exactly the same sentences that you did, only places will be different. US bombs Iraq, Israel bombs Gaza and all that kind of incidents are his fuel. Just like WTC strikes are to you. So you believe in armed forces. What can they do, kill all? You see, about 20% of all the people in the world are muslims (others: pls correct me if I'm wrong). If US wants to have a quick solutions to Iraq situation, they've to kill em all. But that would cause an "Islam uprising" that would lead without a doubt to WW3. Then we all would be loosers. So they can't do that. Biggest problem is that these terrorists aren't exatcly a new phenomenon. Terrorists have existed for decades already. Ask Glas or any other british, IRA was founded decades ago. So have Hamas and PLO. That means that there are boys exactly like yourself, that are raised to hate US. They have been living in the war zone for all their lives. Do you really think that US GI's can wipe this away with one war. Hell, their grand daddies were fighting against Israel when you were just your mommys daydream. You're only 17. I remember what I was like when I was your age. Believe or not I was kinda like you. (though I wasn't never stabbed, so I did something right). Opinions are good to have, but only to the point where they make a reason. You've got yet to learn that 80% of your time you're probably wrong. Just like the rest of all the people that write in this forum. (Except me of course. I made an error last time spring 2000....) airfax @glas: sorry but I forgot what I wrote to that deleted joke. Besides, (that asswipe) Sebbo ask politely not to turn this thread into headbanging contest, so I thought that joke about a guy and his wife might've been out of order.
@Sebbo: I'm sure that Mal knows that whatever i think, no matter how far is my though from him's, i respect him, and no need to say the about Glas. They are friends and they know that i can be emotive but i don't loose respect for them. I can't say the same to you, since i have no respect for you! Kerry lover! (a big kiss) Now getting emotional again.. How can u say that the media manipulates the information?? Move the satellite anthena and check Fox News! That's manipulating media! Don't forget that more than 90% of the European Agencies have american capital or owners. So, or the marine was made by computer, or falluya is a fake city inside MGM Studio or what i see in TV has no manipulation mates, be serious! Don't listen, just watch! U see the iraquis houses burning like me, we can say it's insurgents faults, but it's not at least at my IMHO Let's wonder our selves: The world is safer today than before Iraq's war? The reassons they gave us to go to war were true? If the problem was S.H. why didn't just killed him? Why they went with the U.S army instead of an action supporting local forces like Afghanistan or Pinochet in Chile? Are the "terrorists" that "terrorists"? Were terrorists in Iraq before the war? Why are terrorists now? Why the Chiis joined the Sunnie sublevation? Why the countries are leaving Iraq? Next is comming... Why the Iraqui goverment can't stop the U.S. action? Is Iraq ready for a democratic elections? Are u sick of me? No! I'll com back!
@Allsop: I just want to point that i don't belive that U.S. is acting like the Nazis did. It's very different. But the things i read here make me remember that no media was in the concentration camps, and if there had been, lot's of ppl would be alive today. But don't say it's not about religion or the way they look, while u call iraqui ppl all those nasty things. Be a man, ok? The media must be there, in Iraq and anywhere where the human rights can be violated, sadly we can trust more in some media than in some goverments. How did u know i'm a retard?
There used to be an advert a long time ago on TV. You had a Skinhead running at a bloke in a suit and crashing into him. It looked as though the skinhead was almost attacking the innocent bloke. Then they show'd it from a different angle, and you see that he actually knocks the bloke out of the way of something falling off a building that probably would have killed him. It's not that they arn't showing you real footage and stuff it's how they are showing it. Mal
Ya, but another report tells of houses in Fallujah so booby trapped and full of explosives that it's safer to blow them up rather than try to diffuse them. They saw that in war the infantry on the frontline have the smallest view of whats actually going on (no idea of the big picture) so how can a reporter travelling with them know? Yes they may seem something and in light of what they know (very little) may seem awful, terrible but when included in the big picture is correct and minor. Because of the kidnappings etc, none of the reporters are venturing out onto the streets and getting the true picture of whats happening so all we're seeing is the small view they are seeing backed up with alot of speculation on whats really happening and the point I disagree with is that this speculation is presented as fact. Mal
U're right Mal, but the same can be told of my point of view. I guess that it's everyones choice to believe a media or antoher, but at the end, we both are beliving the media, since we are not there. Nice spot, BTW.
I remember it well, if you want me to repeat it? Besides, nothing inflammatory. You could say the same about much of Scotland (and Finland probably ).
Respect?!? Since when did I ever get respect from you?!? Btw, how is Chuchi, Letty and Al? Tell them I was asking for them, also Anna and your mum and dad In the order you asked; No No Too easy, they had to expend some hardware. They needed pipelines secured. Probably couldnt trust anyone else to do that. Dunno what you meant No Good question. Cos its not religion for them now. Its Iraq v the occupiers. Cos it makes sense, since we shouldnt have been there in the 1st place. The 'Iraqi Govt' was under the CIA payroll (Allawi) A puppet, no more no less. No Hell yeah!
Sorry men.... Allsop freaked me out on this one. I am out of this thread.... Red Ant, Malino, Achtung, Glas, Airfax: Thanks for the great discussion, but its becoming yet another flamefest (not your fault, guys!!!!!). I don't want to be a part of that. Sorry!
Think about it, if how American sees our media of the war and we all belive it is "word for word" true "which I dont think it is" then that means the same tampering could be going on in how YOU see YOUR media and that could form your opinion. Think about it, honestly, in Iraq, they just played the video of the wounded iraqi being shot. But they didnt show the beheadings, the beheading of that wonderfull women who HELPED those people for years, or how the dead bodies of Americans are defiled. So yes, If I were put in such said situation I would probably have done the same thing, because after awhile, after you see people being killed, or know people who have, it gets to you that these enemy seem to have a personal war with you. Every war has had that kind of tension...... Remember "Full Metal Jacket"? The dead body of a chink with the porn on his lap, sunglasses and shit on his head? That was how they releived the tension, but to the other veitnamese, it was a defiling and direct insult....."Platoon" also has alot of war crime type scenarios, but we know things like that did of course take place IRL......
I thing that it's a dead end. We showed up all the different ideas about the subject. I think that i finally understood Glas. I think he's against the war and so, but once his country is involved in one he must support his troops in the battle. Is that what u feel? I think it's easier to be against the war when your troops are at home anyway, so at this point i understand malino and you. bas is 50% of each, not as radical as me, but influenced by the US media, as all the others that don't think like me (a joke) There are lot's of ideas about that HUGE problem that our sons and grandsons are gonna suffer, and noone wants to change his mind, there are not trues in this historya as the true has lots of points of view as Malino said. So at least this little international community can be a proove that even with ppl so radical like me, we can talk, with respect, searching for solutions. U'll say Allsop called me blah blah blah. OK, but his opinion counts. He's a */&%$*&$! yeah, but must be listened as far as he's part of the comunity. At least we show that no matter where u live, what u belive, the color of your skin, or the amount of dollars in your pocket, we can talk about so important subject from respect. No need of wars. So for me, as for bas, the subject is done. The marine did wrong but this doesn't mean that all the U.S. army is acting like this. Let's all go to the UN, we'll rule the security council. A better world is possible.... is in our hands, not in Ohios hands!
I have, a few times in my life, shut off the news on tv, stopped reading the newspaper and stopped listening to it on the radio. No because I don't care, but for my mental health. I got a cat to worry about, damn it!
I don't own TV. I don't really worry about the world so much. People are morons anyway..it really wont get better with worrying. World is like we are...and we are like we've always been. Tho i enjoy reading all these news sites on net. BBC, CNN, Reuters, Fox, Al-Jazeera, New Scientist and whatever. Everyone tells a different story..I like that...reading between the lines. Comparing stuff...you know as sort of hobby. I guess it's because i dont have cat (or anything) to worry about, really.
Europeans tend to be more sceptical of the Media and Policiticians then the majority of the US do though. Access to Satellite TV is quite widespread in the Middle east, also you can bet your bottom dollar there TV is showing alot of innocent civilian casualities that we're not hearing about. (thus inflaming things) Yes, but thats why an army is trained to be disciplined, if the soldiers are indisriminatly shooting people then they are not an army I'd want representing me. (I know what you say about fahrenheit 911 about US soldiers do seem a bit gung-ho). Yes, but instead of treating it as entertainment and making money from it it would be nice if it the people involved made an effort to not repeat it. They showed "True Lies" on TV a couple of weeks back, and where once you had a film that was entertaining now you have a film thats shows everything thats wrong with Hollywood. Go watch it. Mal
do you want to change things? the respect stands in your own way i guess i can't imagine broad consensus based in respecting everybody's opinion that's like watching sunday's noon politician debates in TV or monthy python's flying circus...
hehe... i just read that falluja residents get 100$ from goverment to compensate their blown up homes. had a good laughs.
My neighbor "yes the one that is always bangin chicks hardcore" got back from Iraq a few months ago, and I talked to him alot about it, and you know what he told me? That before they ever go into combat or action or even on patrol they listen to extreem death metal, hard rock, brutal rap, whatever else gets them fired up and into the mood to pop a few rounds off into something.... Yes, I do defend the troops a little more because they are american, but I also understand that war crimes have taken place all through history and that as much as its frowned upon, it happens. "I own True Lies and its a fine movie, but a movie none the less- Pulp Fiction is much better" But just remember, these people who did the crimes in the iraq prison, and now the shooting, they dont get praise or promotians, they usually get dishonerable discharges and are latter charged in our military courts.....
Seriously, eh? Fuckin Canadians. This war sucks all around man, fuck the causes and fuck the reasons, it just sucks for every single person who is physically involved. I hope our troops come home soon and I hope Iraq gets restored to a decent country where the majority are happy. How that's going to happen I don't know, I just know that's what I want to happen.
