My favorite ALL POWERFUL blonde cellist. Every time I see her, I pray she will toss the little [slur] bastard she married and come sleep in my hovel. There is something magical about a wide hipped, blonde, blue eyed woman straddling a big brown wooden musical instrument that sounds amazingly similar to human groans.... [oh, and POWER????? LOL, she was Canada's defence minister and then, for a while, our PRIME MINISTER. She is a professor of law, a Yale fellowship and, oh, did I mention, she is married to a [slur] which is a real help when you want to gain power, *we all know who runs the show in The West*.....] Blonde cellists groannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Holy cow, 118 some answers in this thread lol. And the topic is "horrified!!!". Yeah, horrified! Be horrified! The evil Americans did it, so you are HORRIFIED! Islamo-Fascist have made it an almost weekly routine to cut heads off, but I guess you have the webspace of this forum in mind when you don't bother being HORRIFIED about it, ain't it? After all, there might be just to much of it, considering the webspace. Were you also HORRIFIED when Gogh in the Netherlands got anihiliated by Islamo-Fascists who were prolly happily living on his costs in his wealfare state? I think I'm missing that topic, again I'm sure you had the webspace in mind, nothing else I guess. But now, AT LEAST, another allieged American atrocity, thank God! Now let's run up another 5+ page thread jerking off at them. You are REALLY horny, aren't you? You are some great fuckers, jerking off on the bitch that is called America. I guess this is actual part of your self-esteem. You need it because you know you are sore fuckers in comparison. I believe you have one hell of a lot of envy going on in your head and your country. If envy would be acid, America would be nothing but a bag of bones by now. I didn't read much at all of this thread. After reading some of the comments, I realized that it was just another communal jerking-off contest. Like, "Who can piss the best acid on the Americans?". Boy, was it fun? I guess so. Now. I do not fuck around here. I say I don't know the actual circumstances that led to the killing of that insurgent. Actually, no one else does except for those involved. Point now is to find out. You just saw a damn video-clip, which didn't even have the proper vicinity of which the killing took place centered, so how on earth can you already judge? First of all, let me say that there is a war going on. Second, let me say it is the same as with the Apache video, where AT ONCE the common view here was that those Apache flyers were shooting "farmers". Jesus. You didn't see the briefing, you didn't know the rules of engagement, you didn't know wheather or not those guys were ACTUAL FARMERS, you didn't know the environment it took place in, you didn't know if there was any coordination with nearby ground-forces (as it is the case usually with Apaches, or any other Battle-Chopper, since they are mostly flying Close Air Support Operations and being CALLED IN by ground forces). You judged them pilots, because YOU WERE ALL HOT TO JUDGE THEM. Admit it damnit, you don't give A FUCK whether or not the killing of another human being by American hands would be justified, you ARE SEEKING, HOPING for a killing captured on video so that you can DAMN IT NO MATTER WHAT. Admit it. It doesn't matter what kind of video, showing the killing of humans by American forces, would erupt to public surface - you will condemn it NO MATTER WHAT. Now, when you say you were against this war from the start - I guess then you can condemn the killing of Islamo-Fascists anytime no matter the Rules of Engagement, no matter the circumstances, no matter what. And, secretly, you can cheer towards the head-cutting, too, no matter what. Especially if it was an American who found his head rolling alongside the floor. But don't come here accusing anyone of war-crimes as long as you only saw a fucking 30 second video clip which didn't even have the action centered. It is a known fact that those insurgence fighters, most of them, don't obligt to any rules of engagement or the UN*, and don't give any damn about the Genever convention. It is a known fact that they used the white flag to drag coalition forces into traps, it is a known fact that they booby-trapped their fallen and wounded with explosives. You may dismiss this as propaganda. DO YOU? DO YOU, when it already was a PROVEN FACT that they even "sacrifice" (if they see it like that at all!) Iraqi people by blowing up bombs on some well-visited markets? DO YOU, when they did cut heads of from innocent wealfare and medical workers live on television? My guess is those fucks don't give a damn about the Geneva convention. Common sense should have you agree with me here. Because, from their stand, it would also be the most logical thing to do: They are fighting an enemy with far superior equipment, far superior firepower, far superior numbers, and in the end it is just about who is left, so they better take any tool they can get a grip on to defeat that enemy. Anything else would be romance. By logic itself you cannot dismiss these reports as propaganda, but as desperate action by the enemy to defeat/dis-courage the coalition forces, if they want to have any chance at all doing so. Now, we come right down to the point: That MOSQUE, where either the warcrime or rightous killing by that Marine took place, WAS NOT TO BE A PLACE OF MILITARY OPERATIONS in the first place! Places like Mosques, which are considered civilian orbitories, are not allowed to be either attacked or being hold as a military fortress, according to the Geneva convention. But what the hell you do when bullets are coming for your head from right that mosque, as it was in this case to begin with? You try to just walk by? You get killed. So you shell it. Simple. It is the most logical thing to do by the coalition (or US forces, if you like...) and at the same time it is the most logical thing to do by the insurgent fighters to use this mosque as some kind of stronghold. Especially when you know that your enemy does have the Geneva convention at least in the back of his head, so you at least got an initial advantage on them. Those insurgence fighters got nothing to lose. See above, they are fighting an enemy which they cannot get done with by any kind of "sobber" or conventional warfare. And, from media reports, you already know how good of an advantage it is for you when journalist-jerks report to the world that the evil US forces bombed mosques into the ground (which is not allowed by the Geneva convention). And, because they can count on that most of them hate America, they know those leftist-peace-dreaming journalists will not go deeper into the issue that those insurgence fighters were using that mosque as a military fortress in the first place, which either is not allowed by the Geneva convention. Just as it was not allowed to show up in civilian clothing to fight the enemy, as some of the Republican guard did back in the "formal" military confrontation in 2003. Or as those guys did who steered the 2 Jumbos into the WTC (for those of you who consider it a "Precision strike" or whatever after you got done with your "condolences"), but that's another topic, albeit not too far away, like it or not, believe it or not. There is a war going on I believe plenty of you have not yet grasped. I hope you will do so before it is too late. And "too late" would already start with a nuclear exchange of the Arab world and the West. How dumb you gonna look then, I wonder. "How's that?" "How did that come about?" Man, it was sourced way back in the 1990's if not earlier. And it was called "Islamo-Fasicst against the free world", no matter if you wanted to call it that back then or not. Just like it was Nazis and mislead Japanese Imperor-God-Like-worshipping (in fact the same as Hitler-worshipping, just in Japanese - ask the Chinese, I guess they'll concur) against the free world (and communists, I grant you that) back in the 1930s, when plenty of people of the free world thought of an appeasement solution as well. Hey, let's just talk with them. Yeah, let's just talk with them lions coming for your throat to eat you up because they are HUNGRY = natural desire which no talking on earth could ever change. It's made up by fallen pride of the Arab world, fallen history, mis-used religion by authoritarion leaders, and hatred. I believe when a father is ready to send HIS OWN KIDS to commit a suicide bombing, something very bad went very wrong before, and there is close to zero chance to change it back into a normal discussion ground - I believe you have to kill that father and especially THAT MIND. Realize this: You guys here believe in discussion, you like to discuss (albeit most of this forum shares a common anti-american, anti-western ground, making it not really a discussion), you like the idea of solving problems by peacefull means - those guys we're talking about no longer believe in any of that. What they believe in is KILLING. They believe they're gonna right up into heaven with 70+ virgins taking care of them if they blast themselves in a market full of innocents. This is A FACT of their believing, of their world. How would you like to discuss with an actual guy of those? Note, none of them has shown up here yet. Where would be your condemning of religious fundamentalism, which you accuse the US and/or Bush of, THEN? I tell you I'm not a religous fundamentalist, I do not believe in God (well, I'm not quite sure, but sure enough I'm not sure enough to conduct any actions by my own according to the bible). But I know that plenty of those guys the free world is facing are INSANE. They are all fucked up in their religious fundamentalism which you enjoy to accuse President Bush of, and I believe it was brought upon them by self-glory-seeking dictators and rulers over the last decades, maybe even centuries, who themselves didn't give a damn about Allah at all. So I don't blame the Islamic religion, I blame the fundamentalism which I believe was a tool to the dictators or groups (like the Taliban) to keep themselves in power. You have to KILL IT. Sometimes you only can stop something by KILLING it and FORCING something ELSE onto it. It's an ugly idea, but the truth is often ugly, face it. It doesn't only have to happen by war. You can also try to financial-diplomatic approach, or supporting the opposition within the given country, given the case there is such a thing... Now, back to the issue at hand. You know nothing about the damn occurence where the Marine killed that insurgence. I don't know either. What is know that this Marine who pulled the trigger had some grenade blown up near his face a day or so before, which killed one or so of his comrades and was a result of a booby trap iirc. No matter, that is not meant to be an excuse. It is just meant to bring closer the combat-environment those guys are fighting in, those guys are getting shot at. As I said, the insurgence, by logic and common sense, don't obey any rules of engagement or Geneva convention (and damn SHOULD NOT, if I would imagine myself to be some kind of terrorist commander in chief and responsible for the success of my forces). Now, if I would walk into a mosque, which I was fired on from, and which should not have been a fighting-place in the first place, and I see a guy who is "faking his death", I would not be sure what to do (which can already kill you in a combat environment, understand?). You ask me personally, I think I would have walked up to him, kicked him somewhat, yelling at him "don't fool me", but, then again, at the same time, he might have armed his hand-grenade and it might have blown up in my face. Considering the guy who shot him had a similar trap going up near him, killing a comrade of him, some day before, I'm not AT ALL SURE that I have ANY RIGHT to JUDGE that guy based on some 30 second VIDEO CLIP that didn't even have the vicinity of importance centered. Only an America-Basher could be sure to do so. I'm sorry I'm not. Regards heartc *Hey, I have got a crappy 56k modem, but if you'd really urge me, I could upload a video showing some Palestinian fighters using UN (which is considered "neutral") ambulance service vehicles used as withdrawl vehicles - you'd see a guy getting taken in alliegedly wounded, allright, but at the same time 5+ ARMED, HEALTHY Palestinian fighters would jump in the back, closing the door, escaping Israeli shelling - yeah, very neutral the UN is. Maybe it had something to do with the Arabic Half-Moon on the back of those vehicles instead of the red cross. Anyway, before I blaim any of the UN drivers, I guess you don't have much choice as the driver when 5+ assault-rifle armed fighers jump into your van and you want to live for another day.
Errr Heartc if you'd read the thread you would have seen we came to the same conclusion (in less words) that you've just posted. Mal
It's kinda like this: There weren't any good reasons to invade that country. Now the deed is done. It is not difficult to hop on a tiger's back and go for a ride, what IS difficult is the DISMOUNT. So, troops from the so-called Freedom Coalition fighting to bring Freedom to the Iraqis are stcuk there. Iraqis are starting to TRY AND GET THE RIDER OFF THEIR BACK. The rider doesn't wish to dismount. So, there are more reasons the war will continue. Soon, there will be yet another reaction to western oil companies, oops, I mean military industrial, oops, I mean, troops and yet another attack on a train or a politician and yet another reason to carry on with something that started out as a lark: Let's go shoot some ragheads becuase they are 1) all the same 2) not friendly with jews and 3) they started it anyway Let's say, you are in school: A big fellow is slamming you into the lockers in the halls every time he passes by. He takes your lunch. One day, you can't take anymore and you pre-empt him and kick him in the balls, punch him in the nose and blacken his eyes. And he feels justified, goes and burns your house down. Moral to the story is: You should have just let him cary on slamming you into the lockers, after all, LOOK WHAT YOUR AGGRESSION CAUSED!!!!!!! Heartc, why don't you emigrate to the USA. Did you know you can sign into the armed forces as a resident alien and get citezenship on your discharge? Seig....., I mean, God Bless America
Allright - maybe I thought too low of you socialists . It would be a good thing if we would find a common ground against a common enemy, no matter how else our point of views on other matters, such as economy and social system, might differ. But come on, be honest - the sudden jerk-off automatic reaction to any kind of news as this in this forum is prove enough that something is going on wrong here from my point of view (and not just this forum - I'm talking about Europe and its media). If you actually came to a similar conclusion as mine, why did you (not your personally) start out with that kind of topic and thread in the first place? This actually is the fundamental question, and I believe the answer is nothing else than that it was a natural, irrational anti-american reflex. And this is what is wrong. I don't say criticism of the United States is wrong. It should be there, and it is not neccessarily a wrong thing. But it's your reflexes what is wrong. That's my point anyway. Regards heartc
Not to mention the fact that if you had looked just a tiny bit further in to that story, you would have found the whole story about what happened from the cameraman who shot it. He is with CNN or Fox and was attached to the US 1st something or other. He said clearly in his interview that the insurgent had made no apparent attempt at moving or anything, the marine just shot him. As to the islamo-fundamentalism. There is no excuse for terrorism, and some of those fuckers in Iraq are some of the most evil people to have walked this planet (along with those Chechen bastards at that school), but dont throw your hands up in mock surprise as if we shouldnt have expected it. People in the Middle East (and elsewhere) have been continuously fucked royally by the West. They are sick of it, and they're fighting back with what they see as the only means at their disposal (you said so yourself). The fact is, the developed world owes the undeveloped world big time, since most of the wealth here was built on the slavery of these people years ago, not to mention the ongoing 'slavery' that our multinational corporations subject them to. We made a start, the US/UK/USSR have cancelled Iraq's debt to it (although God only knows the political conditions attached to it). The sooner we do the same for the rest of the Third World (not to mention repatriations) will go some way to healing the scars. 5-10 years of real effort by the West would eradicate the seeds of terrorism. The poverty, deprivation, hunger, torture, etc that come hand in hand with being a Third World native. Take away the root cause otherwise it will just continue for centuries, or ends in a complete bloodbath for everyone.
I believe there is a fundamental disagreeing between you and me here. How about the little fucker just formed up a gang and fucks around in school, including against the big guys and teachers, because of a self-induced minority complex, ala "let's fuck them all, because I suck and didn't get a hang of things yet"? You know, still stuck in the middle-age and all that. Hm, this might be an idea in the end (I know, time would be running out for this option as no one is getting younger). But I do not yet believe you have to leave Europe if you are pro-American. Maybe Europe will wake up at some point after she got its ass waxed often enough. Right now, there is a debate about Islamist non-integration-willing groups going on in my country which would not have been thinkable of only some 3+ years back (because you would have been called a "Nazi" then). Too bad only that this Netherland guy had to have been killed first to initiate it. I wonder how many more have to die, and I also wonder if Europe can actually manage to come up with the right solutions. Actually, I do not see any reason to emigrate to the US. If the whole of Europe would seek to burn me, I would still believe in what I think and don't give a fuck. I seek no refugee camp. I just state my opinion, stand by it as long as I'm convinced by it. I don't give much about what my neighbours think or where I live. My mind is only responsible to myself, and I'm only responsible to my mind. This is disconnected to the place I set my feet on or my dump. Sure, emigrating to the US often crossed my mind, but would it change anything other than myself feeling more comfortable? I guess not. I can live with crazy neighbours. After all, I grew up with them. Regards heartc
The thing is heartc, the 'guy fromthe netherlands' was a crazy right wing nazi freak by all accounts. Same thing happened to the other politician guy last year, only that was a white guy. Does that not then indicate that if someone pushes you far enough by spouting racist bile, no matter your colour you will kill him? It's nothing to do with colour, your just being racist. It is completely to do with your frame of mind in the events leading up to it. Oh and about the 'school bully' thing, good on the small ones who gang together to kick the bully's ass. It's what I had to do in school with guys much older than me, and it worked. I guess I must just be a suicide bomber in waiting.....
Glas, I believe there is "real effort" going on by the West towards what you call the "Third World", but it won't be of much effect as long as them dictators / fundamental groups ruling those countries for the most part (cause they are who got the weapons and/or military) are sucking it all up. Even if you disregard the US, the EU spends plenty into the Third World since some time. With your reasoning, terrorism as we know it now should not have had occured then. How about they're taking our money to establish themselves in their authoritarian/gang position and fight us once they deem to do so? That ever crossed your mind? You know, it would be nothing new. The story of giving your money to someone who fucks you in the process. The one with the money has the saying. You get the money, you rule. Look at Somalia for example. UN spent plenty of effort into it, but as long as that fucker was in command, nothing changed for the people. By UN mandate, and after some UN forces got killed, the US forces tried to put a hold on it. Nowadays you're still laughing at how the US got her ass waxed by them Somalians. Allright. Maybe some people in those countries are just too stupid, being packed full with propaganda over the years, to see what "future" is all about. If they are not ready to advance, fuck them. They are not worthy either our money nor our lives. heartc
No. Actually, this last comment was too harsh. I do not believe that some people can be genuenly stupid. As I said, if you live under some kind of brutal or fundamentalistic regime long enough, you can get dumb-fucked easily. So much that you don't even see who your real enemies are (who sit in your own government). I believe my own country can sing a song about that. BUT, then again it comes down to the point that there are regimes on this earth who form the dreaded "Axis of Evil", like it or not. Armed with WMDS or not (aka threatening you - the free world - or not, which either makes them a priority to take care of or not). I believe there is good and bad on this world. I believe in good and bad. This does not mean black and white, but it does mean bright-grey and dark-grey. And I believe we are the bright-grey part. Is this idea so difficult to understand and commit to? Regards heartc
Sorry about the sieg thing, heartc, that was totally uncalled for. nI am glad you just more or less ignore it, as it was ad hominem. I disagree with you but you aren't a moron. Good arguments.
Oh, was he indeed? Because he spoke out against Islamist fuckers who come here and plan to make up their own fucking Islamo-Facist shit society? I would join him in wishing those Islamo-Fascists to hell. They ought to have no place in Europe. You come to Europe, you better take care ON YOUR OWN to become a EUROPEAN, it's not the job of the European citizens, as well as it is not their job to feed you through, otherwise you should have sticked to your desert in the first place WHERE YOU GOT NO WELFARE. You come here, you BRING something, at least your willingness to integrate. So, if I understand you correctly, after all we can be glad about the fact that some rightous Islamist killed him off. Thank God for the rightous Islamo-Fascists in European countries who take care of our Nazis, lol. Just keep this in mind: You yourself might run into a case of bad luck some day where those rightous Islamists consider you a "Nazi" (they rather call it "infidel", though) based on say, cause you spoke your free mind, or say, your government came up with a law that is not to the liking of the immigrated Islamo-Fascists. You might get killed off like that "Nazi". Prolly, you have to be an author for that to extrapolate your person as a target, I grant you that. Otherwise, you might just walk by some trash can which then blows up in your face, taking not only you with it, by also those two kids and their mother behind you, alongside those infidels who were waiting at that bus stop. Or, even worse: How about your girlfriend or wife on her way home to you, but she doesn't make it past that bus stop? Just like them Spanish girlfriends and wifes who didn't make it off the trains? Hey, after all, I thought it's them Americans who are religious fundamental, how come no one has blown up Michael Moore yet? But if Islamists kill of a Netherland movie maker, he "was a Nazi by all accounts". Sure. You are outraged against death penalty in the US, right? But death penalty in the Netherlands for making a movie that is not to your liking is allright? After all, it's the own right of the Islamo-Fascists who came to Europe to do so, cause they couldn't live out their "pure" view of Islam even in Saudi-Arabia, right? I remember a report on TV where some Islamist Extremist said, in German, that "Germany actually is the most true Islamic country" [for those "true Muslims" who come here]. Yeah. Just come over here if you want to have freedom to follow the most freedom-hostile form of Islam in your own private society, where no state would bother to interrupt you (cause some time back this state gassed the Jews so it now is afraid of saying anything unfriendly to immigrants - never mind the fact that those gassed Jews were actual Germans and neighbours of the next guy, and not immigrants in the first place, but anyway, who bothers to start thinking...). I guess not, but what I guess is that those suicide bombers - waiting - are counting on people like you. heartc
I believe he didn't speak against islamic fundamentalists but generally spoke about arabs and other minorities in very disrespectful way, referring to them with mostly racist with names. (mudface, towelhead... whatever) If some wacko goes to kill him it's no reason to start a fucking mosque burning fest. I have muslims living as my neigbour and they are very nice people. More friendly and tolerant than my other neigbours for sure. Im sorry you feel such hatred against them. Maybe you should go to N africa or middle east for a while and be with em to know how they are like. All muslims arent extremists and most are by far more tolerant than you are.
There are cultural mores that make an Arab an honest nieghbour, a gracious host and an effective enemy. In an Arab home, the host will literally welcome you to his food, his cushions, his camels. What is his is yours. This cultural more makes an Arab a very gracious host. However, the grace an Arab shows towards his guest is juxtaposed by the force he shows his enemy. Never, when people blab about Shariah, do we get told about the caveat involving judgement and sentencing. In Shariah Law, Judgement is God's will. Forgiveness is God's for eternaity, but the victim's for now. Before sentence is carried out, the victim and his or her family can grant the convict clemency. But, of course, we never, in the west, hear about this awesome way for a justice system to grant the VICTIM might, power and responsibility for vengeance or, in it's wake, forgiveness. If you fuck with a Muslim, he might take your life, but he won't nessesarily. Koranic law can work. Fascist Islamic Types had the ONLY LAW IN much of the world for a long long fuckin' time. It was harsh, we here, but it was also impartial and capable of angelic wisdom. Blah blah. Chopping an adultress' head off is pretty nasty, but so is jailing a negro for LIFE becuase he was caught in California, shoplifting for the third time.
Heartc, even you've got to admit American media and American Films: 1. Enjoy negative reporting. 2. Over dramatise. 3. Project an image thats now coming back to bit them in the arse. 4. Encourage the "Gung-Ho" mentality. 5. Very rarely give you the whole story. 6. Create most of the social problems that now exist. (Hollywood films in relation to this one) To clarify number 6, lets take the films 2 fast, 2 furious. Until that came out the UK had simply a problem with Joyriders. Since the film theres now a whole culture based around supped up cars and illegal street racing (I didn't believe it till I was invited along to one of the events. I know most of the above the Western media is also guilty of, but then what directly influences the style of TV and news that we watch. If you wish to call this "Anti-American" then please feel free to do so, I'm not bothered I'm just pointing out some facts. Mal
Media up from the USA: Lottsa youngsters around here are trying to emulate gangster rappers [or what my grand-dad calls "niggers"]. There weren't any kids riding skateboards HERE until a film from hollywood got REAL BIG called "Back To The Future." Rambo, remember Rambo? Fuck, there was a dearth of tards in camo, wearing big [illegal] knives, combat boots and bandanas, subscriptions to a magazine called "Soldier Of Fortune" skyrocketed in this country. A nutcase went into the Quebec Legislature and machine gunned a bunch of Elected Officials. I am rather dismayed. I sure hope many yougsters were influenced to become marine biologists [cousteau] and medical doctors [Marcus Welby MD] and Firefighters [11 September attacks on the World Trade Center], police [The Chiorboys] and Members Of Parliament [no, um, wait].
