WTG. Let's just do this instead boa. How about you stick to your opinion and leave out anything that has to do with my opinion. I will do the same. Then maybe we can actually get something done. Again, let me try and make this clear about what I am trying to say. For all models, it seems to me like turn RATE is a little lacking. For those that don't understand what I'm talking about, that's how fast you can make your compass spin. The sustained RATE is just fine in all models, with the exception of the F model, which (again) feels more like a G model IMO, and may have something to do with flap settings instead of something to do with turning radius or whatever. The instantaneous RATE however is a little lacking, given the arm that the elevator forces have. I believe that our most esteemed colleague may have misunderstood this from my previous posts, or that perhaps I have miscommunicated in the past. I go into further detail by saying that if the P-38F has it's flap operating speeds lowered, along with this increase in turn rate, the turn RADIUS, which I believe boa is saying is a bit overmodeled in the F model, should be increased due to the decrease in available lift from lowering the flap operating speed in spite of the increased instantaneous turn RATE. This should reflect the P-38 F model's increased RADIUS compared to later models, as the P-38 would be taking a much longer time to decelerate in a turn, and thus giving the F model a disadvantage over later models, or any other aircraft for that matter. I do hope this post is understood, however I will entertain questions should there be something that is unclear.
Since DB3, LI2, and B24 now have very bad rudder response at take off, I still wonder if there has been an arena change of lift coefficeint. The B24 also has a huge pitch-up when throttle pulled as well as DB3. P38 had relatively large control surfaces so I wonder if what we are seeing is not a plane setting but rather what I mentioned above. Of course......not even an uber p38 can overcome 7v1 odds or 12 vs 3 in arena.
OK, all this flap-doodle about flaps..... I got the most stupid question here now: I here every talking about and complaining and justifying and measuring flaps. However I find that most the time I want to drop the flaps I get the message that I am traveling at too high speed to engage flaps. The only way I found to engage flaps is to bleed all the speed by exchanging speed to alt. then lower the flaps. Usually it's too late and the need for flaps has transpired.
True. Sometimes you find yourself in a situation where you're too slow to pull as many G's as you'd like, but too fast to improve the situation by dropping a notch of flaps or two. It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't type situation. Maybe in some cases it could be beneficial to quickly enter a dive to pick up some speed, provided you got enough altitude to exchange for speed.
I noticed somewhat different behaviour with most of planes. Never seen that kind of message in wb ?? Exactly the type of situation you can find yourself in when flying P38F. 109 coming for you , your making climb to engage flaps as soon as possible,all notches if possible to be able to dogfight it. Why? Because you simply are not able to move that elevator fast enough to avoid being killed. And often , while your trying to engage flaps , you get killed .. Last update i remember on P38L was increased speed for engaing first notch of flaps...
That may actually have been a step in the wrong direction. IIRC, P-38 manual states that combat flaps should not be engaged at speeds over 250 mph IAS, lest they be damaged. At present, you can safely pop your flaps at 290'ish speeds. I'm with you regarding instantaneous turn rate, though. If the P-38 was less sluggish in reacting to elevator input it would probably benefit more than from incorrectly allowing it to use flaps at speeds far in excess of what it says in the manual. I remember constantly having a finger on the 'I' and 'K' keys during dogfights, always ready to switch between "full up" and "somewhat neutral" because the plane couldn't manage any really high-G turns otherwise.
I know any aircraft can lead turn with a zero, even an Li2 or PE2. I didn't say sustained turning, otherwise, I would said sustained turning, right? This is an aircraft with a lot of weight but, a LOT of thrust which single engine planes can't match. However, I'll reiterate the facts: Gear position____Flaps____Manifold Pressure___RPM___IAS, MPH Up________Up________Power-Off_________________97.5 Down______Up________Power-Off_________________99.5 Up________Down_____Power-Off__________________86.0 Down_____ Down______Power-Off_________________80.5 Up________Up________33.0" Hg._________2400____90.5 Down______Up________33.0" Hg._________2400____94.0 Up________Down_____33.0" Hg.__________2400____65.0 Down______Down_____33.0" Hg.__________2400____60.0 I have outdone zekes and can prove it if someone wants to try. Not out turn them, outdo them.
I believe we understand your point. Still, I think this is where your " Pilot matters, not aircraft" steps in. Very good zeke pilot versus very good P38 pilot I believe is equal no win no loss. Ill quote what Hoof said for old warbirds: One word of caution: If you look at the sustained-turn rate comparison charts, you will see that the P38L turns with the A6M5 variant of the Zero. It is highly advisable not to put this to the test! The P38L only stay's *with* the Zero (and not beat it), and only if a) the zero has no E, b) the zero is the A6M5 variant, c) the P38L pilot uses full flaps and rides the extreme edge of the stall, and d) the zero pilot does not ride the stall (or uses flaps, as it is not advantageous for a Zero pilot to use flaps). If the Zero pilot has any E at all, he will gain 20-30 degrees real quick on you, and you will find out how durable the P38L is! So if P38 pilot is good, zero driver noob, P38 wins. If zero is good pilot, P38 cant match it in maneuvers... Good P38 would use Bnz , or run home... I agree P38L is good plane (talking about L cause its best model), but I dont think it can match Zero in manuvering at lower speeds, and think it shouldnt be able to do so. I would say P38L should be comparable to ki84 or mb even N1k , rather than zero.
Then why even bring it up, since if almost any plane can do it, how's the P-38 special for being able to do it, too? I'm sorry, but it sounded to me like you were saying "Look, this plane is so awesome, it can even turn inside a Zeke!" Please don't take this as a personal attack; it's not meant to be. I'm simply disagreeing with the notion that the Lightning somehow stood out from the crowd in its ability to beat the Zeke at its own game. It didn't. Corsairs, Hellcats and Wildcats were every bit as successful at briefly turning inside a Zeke's turn to set up a killing shot as the P-38. IMO the P-38 was never much of T&B fighter. It had a surprisingly good turn for a fighter so large and heavy, and at very low speeds (as in REALLY low speeds) it could probably even bloody the noses of fighters less than half the Lightning's weight, but other than that I don't believe that the Lightning turned any better than say a P-51. I think it's the Lightning's comparatively great climb and acceleration combined with a good top speed and decent turn that made it an all-around good fighter plane, and ignoring a few little quirks here and there it already does all of these things quite well in the game.
That is true. I know it depends solely on the pilot to determine the outcome. Many times I've been on the short end of the stick, way below a zero or other aircraft and found some advantages. Finding any aircraft lower to a P-38L will likely always find success, unless the pilot gets careless, and blows his energy, which I have done.
Would there be some sort of agreement with improving as a pair the Fw-190 and P-38? Both have been hosed in previous versions.
I think something like this would be more apropriate for our fork.. Check the height of windows , looks like it would provide better view to the sides...Now if only I could find victim or to learn myself how to install our gauges, make all other views, redesign.... would be perfect imo%)
Quick search, looks like its from flight simulator 2004. Ill try to find more.. http://www.avsim.com/pages/0107/P38/P38.htm
This one is also sweet, but is 1024 so i cant post it http://www.tok2.com/home/avionics/fa2/p38l-cockpit1.jpg check this for some future mustang re-build (Our forward view in D is horrible) http://www.tok2.com/home/avionics/fa2/p51d-cockpit1.jpg P38 6 view problem? solved
