Russia-Georgia-Ottesia News Explanations PLEASE?

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by looseleaf, Aug 11, 2008.

  1. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    Re: Popular RU.net joke


    Right, lookie here. I can only speak for myself, but I'm not really blaming Russia for anything ... well, not more than I blame anyone else. The fact of the matter is that neither Russia, nor America have a white vest. Russia has done a lot of stupid and outrageous things ... big fucking deal, so has America ... and tons of other countries, for that matter (including Germany, of course). I'm really only asking you to stop blaming America (or even just the "west") for everything that's wrong in the world. And stop taking these American-Russian power games so fucking seriously. You don't think America and Russia are going to go to war, let alone toss nukes at each other, do you??
    As for Georgia, as I've already said, it looks to me as if Georgia started it. They got their asses whooped, now they just have to deal with the situation. Tough titty.
     
  2. Boroda

    Boroda FH Community Officer

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    You contradict yourself.

    There are many countries who are not nearly "naturally communistic" (in fact no one is) and still don't join aggressive blocks. Austria, Finland, well, France in 1966-98. You think French ports can't process enough cargo?



    Just a country that gets invaded from the West with a rate of once every 50 or 100 years, sometimes even more often. We just want to be left alone. LAst 63 years of peace were an enormous period of time when we didn't have to fight some "civilized nations" trying to genocide us.


    US declared it's going to wipe us out at the first opportunity they'll get.

    They OPENLY published their plans of the first strike against USSR, with massive usage of nuclear weapons against Soviet cities, killing 30 million Soviet people in first 10 days. Google for Drop Shot plan.

    Too tired now for further quoting, sorry :)

    We just want to live in peace and trade with you guys. Who needs invasions in our times? In Ossetia we just protected our citizens from genocide, and then destroyed Georgian armed forces, so they'll be unable to try again. All questions go to Saakashvili and his masters from overseas. "Divide and conquer" is the motto of Pax Americana.

    BTW, Z, do you still use ICQ? I am still 4627619.
     
  3. Boroda

    Boroda FH Community Officer

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    Re: Popular RU.net joke

    I just tried to share my own impression of what I see in Western media.

    It's really confusing for me.

    Both sides lie, but at least Russian media doesn't accuse Western powers in the way they call us names.

    And it's really, really scary to hear some people threatening us like McCaine or that mmmm female who looks like a ...nevermind... teaching us that it's not 1968 anymore, after they occupy Iraq for 5 years now killing hundreds of thousands and bringing a prosperous country back to prehistoric tribal state. Sure not 1968, it's 2008!

    LOL White House press secretary demands Russia to return captured Georgian weapons!!! :D "We made an investment and we want our stuff back!" hehehe.
     
  4. Zembla JG13

    Zembla JG13 FH Beta Tester

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    Well yeah, but France left NATO because they felt they had developed a sufficient nuclear strike force to hold it out on their own ;)

    Of course other ports can process enough cargo, in fact, Rotterdam is the Dutch port and Antwerp is the Belgian port, but that doesn't matter much. Antwerp has the second biggest worldwide chemical industrial port (second to some port in Texas, think Houston). That in itself is gonna be a target either way :) Maybe not on the shortlist, but in the end...


    Whilst we haven't been "genocided", we've seen plenty of different rulers over here. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's a sword with two edges to it isn't it? Noone is going to invade you, it's the people who are afraid of you who try to defend themselves, who then get a response like this. So it's sort of coming full circle. And as any pilot knows, Boyd's spiral needs to be broken at some point by someone or it can go on forever.


    I don't doubt that. Nor do I doubt that there's a similar contingency plan laying in some bunker (maybe publicised as well?). A plan that in very much the same way would flatten the continental US to achieve the same result :)

    They were different times, and the USSR had a very very different policy than the RF. Or at least, had, for the last two decades. Now it seems like the old tensions are heating up, but over what?

    But, as said plenty before, noone is anti-Russian, just in the same way that most countries during the cold war couldn't by heart be anti-communistic, because that in itself would make them undemocratic. Agression will always receive attention though, and as usual it's the ideal behind the agression that catches a lot of wind. Even though it's the application of that ideal the people are truely against.

    Heh, "Divide and conquer" sounds all too familiar, but these days thats usually fought on a diplomatic level. Bush is a war president, and he's left a serious mess for his succesor to clean up. I doubt much is going to happen from their side apart from diplomatic babble. He - personally - would be capable of stirring things up, but I doubt his staff would let him.

    Nah, America's foreign policy for the last few years has been harsh at best, I'm curious to see what 2009 will bring.

    Still have it, recently reinstalled it, only rarely (nearly never) log in to it though :) I'm also still the same number (think it's even in my forum profile).

    Mainly use MSN for that nowadays, capitalism / Bill Gatesism is getting to me ;)

    -Z
     
  5. Uncles

    Uncles Well-Known Member

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    Pavel, it is not that bad. It's true that many in the Western media want to blame Russia about Georgia, but it is not because they hate Russia.

    I know, the politics in the USA are strange now because of the election. Now we have two retarded politicians lying about everything, but that is politics.

    In the West, I am known as an apologist for Russia. But it is not as bad as you think. Anyway, did Thatcher really say such a thing?
     
  6. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    I could see where she could have said such a thing.

    I think everyone here is missing a big point;

    This is not really a thing about "east - west". We (the middle classes-working classes) are being played.

    Those plutocrats; the Thatchers, the Rockefellers, mulinationals, big oil, big banks "military industrial complexes" of the world. They are sapping the life-blood of the people. Our tax money, public funds NOT for public works, health and education, but for arms and other non social redeeming expenses. Certainly in the "Club of Rome" meetings there was discussions of how to lower the world population to a "manageable" level.
    Statements that would have gotten one hanged in Nuremberg 60 years ago, now go unremarked.

    IMHO Stalin was one of the greatest criminals in history yet he said one thing that made me think he may have been a real mass murdering bastard but he was not stupid.
    When he spoke his opinion of FDR being assassinated, asked who did he think would have done such a thing, he responded: "The Churchill Gang".
    That caused me about 6 months of research.

    Like Redant said cooler heads must prevail.

    Let's look at the winners and losers of any more missile placements: the factories that make them and the people who will earn commissions from the sales.

    With more and more borders opening, why missile bases?

    No fear, no enemies, no missiles, no high profit military contracts.

    Let's not fall into their traps!
     
  7. airfax

    airfax Well-Known Member

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    Actually it's quite expected that RF will "protect" it's citizens in Baltic countries, isn't it? But from what? None of LV,LT or EE will start to kill it's russian minority...
     
  8. PG monster

    PG monster FH Consultant

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    LOL they "said". USA made many promisses. Then they broke it. Scroll up for the list of the promisses.

    Yes, reaction is adequate. Every1 understand the radar is against Russia. So we will aim it, why not?
     
  9. Funtom

    Funtom Well-Known Member

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    i don't like politics "made in USA" too ;)
     
  10. PG monster

    PG monster FH Consultant

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    The Independent :"The West must share the blame for war in Georgia"
    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...hare-the-blame-for-war-in-georgia-890250.html
    //////all the talk about Nato encouraged Georgian adventurism. It helped President Saakashvili to think that he could behave like a founder member. He concluded that he could provoke Russia with impunity. The Russians concluded that it was time to teach him a lesson.

    That should not have been necessary. Rather than waiting for the Russians to instil the fear of death, the West should have taught Georgia the facts of life. We ought to have reminded them that they were living in a dangerous neighbourhood. ////////
     
  11. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    I know the western media lies too, but I tried make any opinion from details of war, not from Russian, Georgian or Western news, and I decided that propably agresor was Russia, it looks like this, but I can be wrong.

    Do anyone knows what is the disposal of citizens in Abchazia and South Ossetia?

    I think if Russia hits USA radar in CZ it couldn't be so bad, radar is in military area quite far from villages, hope you will be accurate enough:rolleyes:

    So what will be next? Georgia with knife "Ossetia" with Russian army behind Caucassus near Tiblisi could be like detonator if it will be in NATO. And the military reaction will not be only by hard words. We should attack if the will be any conflict if Georgia will be in NATO. So this is the main problem of Georgia, and that is why both sides must cooperate for stability of region.
     
  12. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    http://novayagazeta.ru/data/2008/59/00.html

    Садимся в Джаве. На попутках добираюсь обратно в Цхинвали. В грузинских селах на Траскаме горит все. Оставшихся грузинских военных ищут по подвалам и стреляют на месте. Эйфория разрушения и разграбления ? тащат абсолютно все, от автомобилей и мебели до баранов в багажнике. Южную Осетию Грузия потеряла навсегда, это очевидно. Ненависть абсолютная.

    This is some point of view which is propably non western. What about protecting Georgian minority in SO?
     
  13. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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  14. -mart-

    -mart- Well-Known Member

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    I think there is not any "Georgian minority" in SO.

    After "Impire strike back" the knew what they can awaiting after georgian did in SO with civilian people and the run away, imho
     
  15. -mart-

    -mart- Well-Known Member

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  16. Tzebra

    Tzebra Well-Known Member

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    I said it from the beginning and I say it again: ALL media is full of shit. Always has been, always will be. The true story of events will be pieced together over the next year or two, and then we can all read about it.
     
  17. Tzebra

    Tzebra Well-Known Member

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    A question I have regarding the downed aircraft is:
    Where they all brought down from ground-fire or was there any reported AA action?
     
  18. Boroda

    Boroda FH Community Officer

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    Novaya Gazeta (New Newspaper) is a well-known "rightwing-liberal" leaflet, absolutely anti-Russian. 5th column. You see, we have a huge variety of views here.

    Well, looting is a traditional Caucasian sport. :( Georgian troops who stayed in Tskhinval were probably too busy doing the same things when 58th Army troops arrived.

    Georgians who live next door with Osetins, who are "assimilated" and don't shoot at neighbors are quite safe. There are even some Georgians fighting together with Osetin militia.

    Here is a nice photo of Osetin militia helping a Georgian old man:

    [​IMG]

    The story behind this photo is too long to tell it here. :( It's all very sad...
     
  19. Boroda

    Boroda FH Community Officer

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    Exactly. Even general Nogovitsyn's (he's a Russian Defense Ministry spokesman) daily press-conferences are not shown here except on Vest-24 TV channel... And that guy is sincere as a true soldier.

    Here we have a rare opportunity to see blogs from people who are really there before censorship and editing. Journalists, volunteers, ordinary Ossetians, we see what they post or read SMS messages and reports from them published in blogosphere.
     
  20. Boroda

    Boroda FH Community Officer

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    Georgians had a Buk SAM battery in Gori, it's them who shot 3 Russian planes (4th was a victim of friendly fire, shot down by our MiG by mistake). Georgians had a Grad MLRS position on a stadium (!!!) inside Gori, also huge ammunition stocks. Most of the victims there (very few though) are a result of this stockpiles blown up by Russian shturmoviks.

    Loosing 4 aircraft from Georgian aircraft-defense is a crime, I hope someone will have to answer why were our planes used before SAMs were supressed. It looks like Finnish War back in 1939. :( Sending a Tu-22M for a "recon" mission - what a stupidity. AFAIK it was carrying free-fall bombs (!!!) on this recon...