date april 1941, fighter aircraft available from big field: axis: A6M2 Bf109e4 Bf110 c-4 KI-27 KI-43II allies: F4F-3 Hurricane I Hurricane II I-153 I-16 Type 28 I-16 Type 29 LaGG-3 MIG 3 Type 1 MIG 3 Type 2 P-40B Spit Ia Spit II a Spit Vc
date: april 1941 axis: ju87d ju88a1 A6M2 Bf109e4 jabo Bf110 c-4 jabo KI-27 KI-43II jabo allies: F4F-3 pe2 sdb tbf il4 Hurricane I Hurricane II jabo I-153 jabo I-16 Type 28 I-16 Type 29 jabo LaGG-3 jabo MIG 3 Type 1 jabo MIG 3 Type 2 P-40B Spit Ia Spit II a Spit Vc jabo
@ gahis you are right, if you consider all planes and not only the fighters it looks even worse for axis.
if we got eastern front arena axis: ju87d ju88a1 Bf109e4 jabo Bf110 c-4 jabo allies: pe2 il4 I-153 jabo I-16 Type 28 I-16 Type 29 jabo LaGG-3 jabo MIG 3 Type 1 jabo MIG 3 Type 2 if we got Pacific front if we got Western front if we got african front etc
May 1941 brings 109F. for the 1st two years of the RPS, except for 1 month, 109s are the best fighters. Axis had less nations, so one would expect them to have less varieties of aircraft
I Doubt. Here's planes of FAF in ww2. Add other axis minor nations and i'd imagine quite huge plane count. Aero A-32 GR Airspeed AS.6E Envoy Avro Anson I Beechcraft B17L Beriev MBR-2 Blackburn R.29 Ripon IIF VL R.29 Ripon IIF Brewster Model 239 Bristol Blenheim I Bristol Blenheim IV Bristol Bulldog IIA Bristol Bulldog IVA Caudron-Renault C.R. 714 Cessna C-37 Curtiss Hawk 75A Curtiss P-40M Warhawk De Havilland D.H.60 Moth De Havilland D.H.60X Moth De Havilland D.H.82 Tiger Moth Desoutter II Dornier Do 17 Z-1 Dornier Do 17 Z-2 Dornier Do 17 Z-3 Dornier Do 22Kl Douglas DC-2 Fairchild 24 Fiat G.50 Fieseler Fi 156K-1 Storch Focke-Wulf Fw 44 J Stieglitz Fokker C.VE Fokker C.VD Fokker C.X Fokker D.XXI Fokker F.VIIa Fokker F.VIII Gloster Gamecock I Gloster Gamecock II Gloster Gauntlet II Gloster Gladiator II Hanriot H.232.2 Hawker Hurricane I Hawker Hurricane IIA Heinkel He 59B-2 Heinkel He 115A-2 Hшver M.F. 11 Ilyushin DB-3M Ilyushin Il-4 Jaktfalken II Junkers A 50 Junior Junkers F 13kд Junkers Ju 88 A-4 Junkers W 34fa Junkers W 34hi Junkers K 43fa Koolhoven F.K.52 Lavochkin LaGG-3 Letov ? 218 A "Smolik" Messerschmitt Bf 109G-2 Messerschmitt Bf 109G-6 Messerschmitt Bf 109G-8 Morane-Saulnier M.S. 406 Morane-Saulnier M.S. 410 Mцrkц-Morane Petlyakov Pe-2 Petlyakov Pe-3 Polikarpov I-153 Polikarpov I-15bis Polikarpov I-16 Polikarpov U-2 Polikarpov I-16UTI Shavrov Sh-2 Tupolev SB-2 Tupolev SB-2bis Tupolev SB-3 Tupolev USB VL E.30 Kotka II VL Humu VL Myrsky I VL Myrsky II VL Pyry I VL Sддski II VL Tuisku VL Viima II Westland Lysander I
There's no getting away from the fact there is a major imbalance in the arena early war. Thanks illo for the info above I would like to see it redressed, if even a little. The He-111 and SM79 would be nice in the bomber category. For fighters, there are many good Allied planes that fought also for Axis. The chaika for example (4x7mm mmmmm *drool* - i love that wee plane). As I said, please even it out a little, at least in the interests of fairness -glas-
but f2 is now in the arena, multi is low, but who cares about scores; now axis ca fight those damn spits;
To be fair the spit (and F4F if it has advantage on me) is the only plane I fear early war, before the intro of the P40, LaGG, etc, etc before we get 109-F2. -glas-
Glas is very right here, totally agree; no w8! forgot about pe2 - 109s killer... damn oil leaks from ottos
LOL you are very very right spuint Pe2 is a terrible plane, flying at 500kmh and dropping bombs with pinpoint accuracy is totally absurd, not to mention the ottos. I am giving up chasing them early war -glas-
Performance between the Spit Vc and the 109F2 is almost identical above 2K alt. At present the Spit Vc (and Hurri II) have the advantage because the 20mm Hispano is over modelled. 1x20mm from a Hispano can remove the wing from the 109F2, whereas 15x15mm from the 109 tend to only damage the Spit. Mal
Not to mention the Shvak (or something) 20mm cannons! i killed 5 planes in 1 sortie with only 10x20mm in La-5. I think those cannons are waaaaay more overmodeled than hispanos. Yak kills with 2x20mm, even 1x20mm in several ocations.
ah.. these stories again if you would at least whine about spit's durability(which is proven)... but overmodelled cannons... My wing came off after 1X20 in every plane I have killed someone by 2-3x20 in every plane(well.. not oerlicons) I have survived 15+ x 20 in many planes including zeke it is all about impressions! 4x20 into one spot and you are gone! no matter what are you flying, no matter if it was mg151/20, hispano mk2 or shvaks mb oerlicons need more.. but their problem is more RoF and thus concentration of hits at one spot than actual power (japanese oerlicons are weak though.. but they were in RL as well) ppl tend to remember irregularities more than usual things.. and ppl tend to remember "unjust" things which happened to them better as well
cc that manoce, i have taken numerous hits in spits and other allied aircraft , but i have seen other axis aircraft do the same. even the no armor zeros and ki's. i must say, i also have lost a wing on the spit from no hits! it is a fact, concentrate your fire in one area and you'll find success. spread it out over the entire aircraft of your con and he may survive. i always try to be a hard target (which means, do evasives) i am not always successful, but more often then not. the cons hits are all over my aircraft. also helps to have some friendlies around to take those pesky ki-43s off my 6 don't forget 109t golds
cant say if hispanos r overmodelled - ive never used it but spit durability is too big imho; anyway i dont care - f2 is a good plane; its possible to fly and not being hit (so no difference if hispanos overmodelled or not), thats all i want; so: spits too durable? what the hell - ill practice my gunnery; hispanos overmodelled? so i will try to not allow spit hit me (not to let him hit me and pray for low damages as i see many pilots doin' in MA when fighting planes whith less firepower) mb its not true, mb its coinsidence, mb its pilots fault.... but when i fly spit against 109s kills are easier... what the hell, ill fly axis planes anyway, itll just make me better...
me, illo and few others i think declared on helping to develop earlier 190's and later Emils, but no interest was shown
MG151/15mm is more like machine gun than cannon, FAR from 20mm. Compare it to the 2x12mm of Ki43, that is similar. Too bad that TA isn't currently available to check Hispano's power again. IIRC in my last tests, Hispano and MG151/20 were both pretty equal, less than 10% difference. That is more in favor of Mauser, as far as I know. Let's compare their real versions, from what I know. Damage of HE shell depends on three factors. 1. Pure kinetic energy of shell. Hispano had clear and major advantage here, as it had higher muzzle velocity and shells kept their speed better than flat-nosed M-geschoss shells. In addition they were heavier. BIG advantage for Hispano 2. Blast effect Blast effect is most powerfull inside wing or fuselage, in confined area. M-geschoss shell is far more powerfull than british HE shell, no doubt, it has twice of the explosive material. But it is great only inside of the plane, when exploding on the impact, its damage is lower. Difference between Hispano and Mauser is small in this case, as major part of blast energy is wasted in all directions. BIG advantage for Mauser, if the shell don't explode on the surface, otherwise small advantage for Mauser. I will take it as medium advantage, because shells often exploded on the first impact on the surface. I think that Hispano had less problems with this, as their shells packed a lot higher kinetic energy to get them inside before explosion started, but I can be wrong in this 3. Fragments of the shell Fragments can hit critical parts, pilot, fuel tanks and so on, just like ordinary machine guns. It is main plane/pilot killer, imho for every ordinary HE type. Just like anti aircraft artilery and modern anti-aircraft missiles. M-geschoss is lighter, with less material and weaker sides, fragments are less powerfull than fragments from heavy british shell. Difference is like difference between 7mm and 12mm machinegun. Then you have fact, that Hispano has significantly higher muzzle velocity and result is clear. It is easier to hit with Hispano, and it has reliable and consistent results. On the other side it is harder to hit with Mauser, because shells are slower, and its final damage is somewhat random, from really big to small depending on the shell fuse... of course other shell types than M-geschoss type can't be compared to the Hispano at all. Luftwaffe used ordinary rounds too, as 20mm M-geschoss wasn't available with tracer and its armour piercing capabilities were horrible. ------- Of course, as Manoce said, problem lies more within damage models of planes, there isn't much of difference in killing. Spitfires, Yaks and 109s are definitely tougher then they should be. All three types were known as rather fragile and easy to catch fire, not tough, and here they can sustain a lot of damage. Fw190 was tough and small, but it also had unprotected angles and it also easily catched fire, especially when hit by Dixon's bullets. 5-8mm armor isn't that much effective against 0.50" bullets too. Yaks, well, I never found anything in their favor in this area. Especially that light Yak-3 should be very very fragile aircraft, most probably most fragile fighter in the whole planeset. IL2, well, that is complete BS Zero and other japanese aircrafts is imho correct as far as toughness go (except cockpit rejecting bullets), it wasn't fragile plane at all! Its critical weakness were unprotected fuel tanks which easily catched fire. and pilot was without protection. But fuel tanks and pilot are small areas compared to the whole aircraft, and remaining parts were hard to destroy, especially with 12mm bullets, there wasn't anything important to destroy, and engine could survive heavy damage, just like american PW radials. It would be nice to increase chance of fuel fire on most early war japanese aircrafts
