comprehensive reading, as always, comet I expected some acclaim from ppl interested,, but just questions appeared well all u whiners, look at these articles to know how it was in RL... and how it is in WBFH... you'll have to bring it out by yourself http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ideal.htm http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm excerpt: "In 20mm weapons, the best performers were the Soviet gas-operated ShVAK (800 rpm, 42 kg) and Berezin (800 rpm, 25 kg), the recoil-operated Japanese Ho-5 (850 rpm, 35-37 kg) and the hybrid (gas-unlocked delayed blowback) Hispano Mk V and US M3 (750 rpm, 42 kg). The recoil-operated MG 151 could also manage 700-750 rpm from 42 kg, but the Hispano could be speeded up significantly" Personally, I would beleive mr. Tony Williams.
what about the japanese 20mm type 99 cannon? what velocity? slow from what i have read. i heard it was actually very frustrating to kill allied aircraft with this gun.
i may suggest you to check http://duc.port.kz/aviadata/rps-0010.xls it's not quite a source, it's compillation. we run this file with -echo-. i'd say the reliability of this table is about 80% however, gun chapter has much higher thrustworthiness say about 95%/
Actually MG151/15 and MG151/20 are same gun with only different barrels. But youre right theres big difference in MG151/20 and MG151/15 when hit. Mine ammo in MG151/20 has much higher explosive content. HE was also used in MG151/15 ammo mix, but i guess with it's superb ballistics AP might have been more effective. I tested some 6 months ago. Difference was about 10% but other way around. Hisso was more effective. Correct. At close range MVs 805m/s or 880m/s doesnt matter much though. MV affects mainly how easy it's to hit and AP penetration. So bigger advantage to hisso longer the range. (due to heavier AP or HE shell and MV) M-Geschoss 2cm had delay fuse set to explode some milliseconds after first impact. It worked fine (on both MG-FF and MG151/20) and external explosions werent common. However this delay had drawback when firing from high deflection. If you hit ie stabs or thin wing rounds would often go trough and detonate after exiting airframe. In this case damage would be very minimal. I've seen pic of p-51 vstab with such 30mm entry and exit hole. Hispano HE had problem with fuses going off at point of hit. (rounds exploding outside) That was fixed somewhere in 1941 AFAIK. Anyway in blast cathegory mine rounds had huge advantage. Correct. On shrapnel side Hisso has big advatage. But ie. in wing or fuselage sharpnels arent effective. They need to hit vital part since they cant collapse structure by pressure like blast. That means Hisso is more effective if you shoot things like engine or cockpit area. (much higher chane of hitting pilot, vulnerable engine location etc.) MVs are 805m/s and 880m/s so theres not huge difference unless long range. (Mine round slows down faster) I agree mostly. But i think MG 151/20 higher ROF also eases number of hits. (In)Consistency of damage is more about ammo mixtures AFAIK. But it's true. I agree for what i (think i) know of it.
no way illo, take YAK and you'll see, 2x20mm and you make the con go in flames, while with MG151/20 you need more than 7 bullets, sometimes even 15.
its not the firepower difference, mg151/20mm is more powerfull, BUT its the flipside of the coin, red planes are more armoured, hence the less damaging mg151, try shooting a 109 with mg151, and watch it go up in flames in a fireball, try that on a spit5, lagg, i153, hurr2, f4f, and notice more hits are needed
Planes which in real life were made predominantly from wood and canvas. the only armor on early spits was behind (and underneath) the pilot. Mal
Just pointing out the Tony Williams factors in the weight of the weapon in his judgements. This factor should already be incorporated in FH flight models, but 'invisible' when judging cannon effectiveness in combat trials. Emil saves 44kg weight in 20mm cannon versus Spit V, but you wouldn't notice it when counting pings
Kiva lista Illo oot varmaan kдyny tддllд ..FAF planes in ww2 Luen juuri Joppe Karhunen : 'Merilentдjдt sodan taivaalla' ...oisko mitддn hyviд lukuvinkkejд aiheesta? wtg
oh you story tellers.. i°ll tell you my story: yesterday , 1x15 from 109F2, rear fьselage destroyed (no fuel.. just plain destroyed), in spitfire Vc
Hi Mal, I don't know if the Hispano is overmodeled or not. But I would just like to input here my personal experience as often being just the opposite. I often put 12 or more 20mm plus countless 7mm into a 109 to watch it RTB damaged. Conversely I also am often killed by 109F while flying a Spit after having recieved as few as 2 15mm. These are non-PK kills. I'm not complaining bias here, just trying to point out what I experience often from the other side
11x30mm to kill a B17. 3x30mm to kill a spit! Took 13x20mm in my 109-G2 yesterday, undamaged mostly. Went HO with holmes if I remember correctly last ToD. He hit me with 7-8x20mm, I hit him with 2x7mm or something. He died, I flew away undamaged. Ive never ripped a wing off, or had one of mine ripped off (or fuselage or anything major) by 1x15-20mm cannon tho. We all suffer it and we all get the 'benefit' of it also I imagine. Swings and roundabouts -glas-
