The agreement between squads about the spying disuse on FH

Because of wide using of spying on FH for last time I offer to sing the agreement between squads of spying disuse.

Please every squad leader acquaint with the text of agreement below.


"The agreement between squads about the spying disuse on FH"
rev: 1.03

1. Definitions.
spying - permanent monitoring of the enemy side by country change on own or another nick or by running the 2nd copy of WB on another computer to use the received information for private uses or sending the information to another pilots.

2. The responsibility of the squad:
- stop using the spying in the squad, if such was occured;
- inform all pilots in the squad about the spying prohibition in the squad;
- insert the amendments into the Squad Rules about the spying prohibition;
- do not allow the spying in the squad;
- expel the pilot from squad, if the pilot is catch on permanent spying

3. Filing rules.
Leader have to make the application to join the agreement in the following form:

FH Squad ___________, on behalf of the leader ____________, signs "The agreement between squads about the spying disuse on FH, rev 1.03"
We are familiarized with the agreement rules. We undertake to conform to the rules.

4. Squad List of participants:
Squad: 9th GvIAP (former squad -=:16:=-)Signed (squad leader): sanek- Dated 20.08.2003 Active Pilots: 7
Squad: Axis Foreign Volunteers Squad Signed (squad leader) -fla-- Dated 20.08.2003 Active Pilots: 21
Squad: 13th-vBG-[Heavy] Signed (squad leader) flihnt Dated: 21.08.2003 Active Pilots: 2
Squad: -=WINGS OF FURY=- Signed (squad leader) airgem Dated: 22.08.2003 Active Pilots: 5
Squad: 302nd POLISH SQ -Poznanski- Signed (squad leader) miixch Dated: 22.08.2003 Pilots: 34
Squad: JV44 Galland's Flying Circus Signed (squad leader) Barak (-barak) Dated: 23.08.2003 Active Pilots: 21
Squad: 1│/1│ GavCa Senta a Pua! - BRASIL Signed (squad leader) hotsea (natedo) Dated: 24.08.2003 Active Pilots: 18
Squad: 1st SQUAD of SZCZECIN Signed (squad leader) tomekf Dated: 25.08.2003 Active Pilots: 5
Squad: St.G 2 "Immelmann" Signed (squad leader) Asgard (St.G 2) Dated: 26.08.2003 Active Pilots: 12
Squad: Sturmtruppen Signed (squad leader) mcosta Dated: 26.08.2003 Active Pilots: 6
Squad: meeeeooowwwwww Signed (squad leader) mcosta Dated: 26.08.2003 Active Pilots: 1
Squad: 303rd Polish Fighter Squadron Signed (squad leader) -kopi- Dated: 26.08.2003 Active Pilots: 27
Squad: =NORMANDIA= Signed (squad leader) igosky Dated: 26.08.2003 Active Pilots: 2
Squad: {JG13}Loki's Kinder Signed (squad leader) Zembla JG13 Dated: 26.08.2003 Active Pilots: 15
Squad: ~~~Texas Rattlesnakes~~~ VH Signed (squad leader) --top- (~Top Jimmy~) Dated: 31.08.2003 Active Pilots: 28
Squad: III/3-Dywizjon-WIELKOPOLSKI Signed (squad leader) uechti (Uechtie) Dated: 27.08.2003 Active Pilots: 14
Squad: 228 ShAD VVS KA (including 228 ShAD VVS KA (688 ShAP), 228 ShAD AirSchool, 228 ShAD VVS KA (285 ShAP)) Signed (commissar) -exec- Dated: 02.09.2003 Active Pilots: 35
Squad: 27│EVC FalcOes da Noite-Brasil Signed (squad leader) vlamik Dated: 04.09.2003 Active Pilots: 7
Squad: 1st Imperial Flyers of Lark Signed (squad leader) airfax Dated: 05.09.2003 Active Pilots: 1
Squad: 55th IAP VVS Signed (squad leader) vzhik- Dated: 08.09.2003 Active Pilots: 12
Squad: 2│/3│GAv GRIFO - BRASIL Signed (squad leader) fuhrer Dated: 09.09.2003 Pilots: 26
Squad: VF-1 Falcoes-Marinha do Brasil, VF-1 Falcoes-Marinha do Brasil,
Signed (squad leader) VF-1_Mach-1 (Mach-1) Dated: 12.09.2003 Pilots: 26
Squad: FFBA Signed (squad leader) dick-s (dick_steel) Dated: 15.09.2003 Pilots: 3
Squad: -= 169 ABON FRANTIC =- Signed (squad leader) -vag-- Dated: 18.09.2003 Pilots: 7
Squad: 1st Czech Lions, 1st Czech Lions (Recruit) Signed (squad leader) bukin-, tramps Dated: 18.09.2003 Active pilots: 27
Squad: Jagdgeschwader 52 Signed (representative) -Kharn- Dated: 19.10.2003 Pilots: 14
Squad: VFA-303 Pirates Signed (squad leader) long-j (beryl) Dated: 19.10.2003 Active pilots: 4
Squad: "Elite" Signed (squad leader) bullet (bizerk) Dated: 21.10.2003 Active pilots: 15
Squad: No.403 "Wolf" Sqn. RCAF Signed (CO) -buzz (Buzz-403) and XO --o--o (acadia) Dated: 19.11.2003 Pilots: 17
Squad: <<< Brasilian Mariners >>> Signed (CO) Brahma (tainia) Dated: 09.02.2004 Active Pilots: 16
Squad: Finnish Flying Circus -=FFC=- Signed (CO) -kp---(Ret) (-jozo-) Dated: 27.02.2004 Pilots: 13
Squad: KG51 Edelweiss http://members.tripod.com/kg51edelweiss/ Signed (CO) -cbfs- Dated: 25.03.2004 Active Pilots: 13
Squad: 312 Czechoslovak Sq. RAF http://312.jinak.cz/ Signed (squad leader) --zo-- Dated: 29.03.2004 Active Pilots: 12
Squad: 1│/14│ GAv PAMPA - Br Signed (CO) -xiru- (Ricedd_EEB) Dated: 30.03.2004 Active Pilots: 5


Russian version is available at: http://forum.wbfree.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16509

We have to note that squad can leave from "The agreement between squads about the spying disuse on FH, rev 1.03" by written statement.

Appendix #1

The list of the squads which had declared the disire to join the non-spying agreement:

Code:

[B]Squad Name:			Number		Representative nick 
				of pilots:	(nick, forum nick):[/B]
.Pomerania Squadron.		4		spuint
Escuadron 2 de Mayo		1		-broz-, broz
Escuadron Daoiz y Velarde	1		azhag-, broz

Total Number of pilots already joined or ready to join non-spying agreement: 477 pilots




Below you can find the list of all FH squads sorted on number of pilots. The undetermined squads with total number of pilots less than 7 pilots ware not represented.

Code:

[B]
SQUAD NAME:			PILOTS  STATUS:            
				NUMBER:
[/B]
302nd POLISH SQ -Poznanski-	34	SIGNED
[COLOR=Red]I./Legion Condor JG69		33	declined[/COLOR]
~~~Texas Rattlesnakes~~~ VH	28	SIGNED
303rd Polish Fighter Squadron	27	SIGNED
2│/3│GAv GRIFO - BRASIL		26	SIGNED
VF-1 Falcoes-Marinha do Brasil	23	SIGNED
1st Czech Lions			22	SIGNED
228 ShAD VVS KA (688 ShAP)	21	SIGNED
Axis Foreign Volunteers Squad	21	SIGNED
JV44 Galland's Flying Circus	21	SIGNED
72AG				19	?????????????
1│/1│ GavCa Senta a Pua! - BR	18	SIGNED
No.403 "Wolf" Sqn. RCAF		17	SIGNED
102nd YUGOSLAV SQN.		17	?????????????
<<< Brasilian Mariners >>>	16	SIGNED
"Elite"				15	SIGNED
{JG13}Loki's Kinder		15	SIGNED
Jagdgeschwader 52		14	SIGNED
I/Jagdgeschwader 54 "GrYnherz"	14	?????????????
[COLOR=Red]-SiBEERian Brigade-		14	declined[/COLOR]
III/3-Dywizjon-WIELKOPOLSKI	14	SIGNED
[COLOR=Red]=Flying BARANS=			13	declined[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red]SiBEERian Reserve		13	declined[/COLOR]
Ghost of EUROFALCONS		13	?????????????
EsquadrOo Estilingue Brasil	13	?????????????
Finnish Flying Circus -=FFC=-	13	SIGNED
KG51 Edelweiss			13	SIGNED
St.G 2 "Immelmann"		12	SIGNED
JG27 Afrika			12	?????????????
55th IAP VVS			12	SIGNED
1│/14│ GAv Esquadrao Pampa BR	12	?????????????
228 ShAD AirSchool		12	SIGNED
312 Czechoslovak Sq. RAF	12	SIGNED
=VCAF=				9	?????????????
MERCENARIOS			8	?????????????
25th IAP (VVS)			7	?????????????
-= 169 ABON FRANTIC =-		7	SIGNED
=Black Knights=			7	?????????????
squad -=:16:=-			7	SIGNED
REDHAWKS			7	?????????????
27│EVC FalcOes da Noite-Brasil	7       SIGNED
<~GREENWINGS~>			7	?????????????
Sturmtruppen 			6 	SIGNED
1st Czech Lions (Recruit)	5	SIGNED
-=WINGS OF FURY=-		5	SIGNED
1st SQUAD of SZCZECIN		5	SIGNED
1│/14│ GAv PAMPA - Br		5 	SIGNED
VFA-303 Pirates			4	SIGNED
.Pomerania Squadron. 		4	TENTATIVE AGREEMENT
72AG (UchAP) 			3	?????????????
VF-1 Falcoes-Marinha do Brasil, 3	TENTATIVE AGREEMENT
FFBA 				3	SIGNED
[COLOR=Red]13 ShAP il2			2	declined[/COLOR]
=NORMANDIA= 			2 	SIGNED 
13th-vBG-[Heavy] 		2 	SIGNED
228 ShAD VVS KA (285 ShAP) 	2 	SIGNED
Escuadron 2 de Mayo 		1 	TENTATIVE AGREEMENT
Escuadron Daoiz y Velarde 	1 	TENTATIVE AGREEMENT
meeeeooowwwwww 			1 	SIGNED
Imperial Flyers of Lark		1	SIGNED
-----------------------------------------------------------
Total:				688 pilots


SIGNED:				468 pilots  68%
TENTATIVE AGREEMENT:		9  pilots  1%
[COLOR=Red]Declined:			75  pilots  11%[/COLOR]
Under discussion/unknown:	136 pilots  20%
-----------------------------------------------------------
Total:				688 pilots  100%

Squads who have no determined the attitude to the agreement, please discuss the possibility to sign the agreement as soon as possible.

Squads who are contra the agreement - we will be very happy if you can change your position.

Join us!

 

Is the first of April or what?

Simply go Serverlog, resolve Client-IPs and Bounce ALL double IP for 24hrs, maybe they will learn that Way.

 

Sure, ban all people who fly from masqueraded LAN

 

then check the pilots hanging only in twr , compare with double-ip and kick then...

or give in-air-radar free for all, so no reason given...

seems no solution possible

 

hm....
anyone banned already for that?
i cant login from my home; so my sq-mate cant
we share internet connection by LAN.... same ip...
i can retrieve arena with member list but when goin to join any arena an error is encountered: "cannot resolve ip adress of arena: wb.chph.ras.ru"
we've never done any spying shit; we fly missions together or at least at the same time;
so if its the reason we cant login - pls do sth;
if thats not the reason - what could it be?

 

Hi All!

Espionage is thee oldest trade of mankind, yes, it even came before prostitution, simply, because you had to spy upon the neighbourґs wife first before you ran away with her.

Espionage has always been - and still is - a versatile tool to gain an advantage in conflicts, wars and business competitions. Espionage is covered by Geneva Convention (art 5 and 68). In former war times the various spies have ended up in front of a firing squad. In modern times spies have been sentenced to lifetime imprisonment more often.
Major espioage cases in recent history: Penkowsky, Philby, Amos.
There is a certain ?honour code? by which modern powers are treating discovered spies. They are treated as ?VIPs?, because you need that captured spy as pawn in case one of your own agents is being captured by the opponent.

In WarBirds multiple accounts played simultaneously by players can be a contribution to the fun-factor, extraordinary example is shown here.

There is no way to differentiate between a multiple account beeing used for fun versus one beeing used simultaneously for espionage.
Many a squad has a collection of rules amongst which ?Cheating? is a major factor. However, none of the squads, I assume, has any rule yet covering ?Espionage?.

In WarBirds the ?War?, the reset, is won by any one colour by means of field captures only. The outcome of minor battles during that particular war is not very significant. The odd capture of a CV is a lot of fun, however, does not influence outcome of the overall war to a great extent.
Espionage in WarBirds is not a major factor, which influences the outcome of the war. The unbalanced distribution of players and/or tactical coordination within one colour of players does this a lot more significantly.
In summary:
Espionage in WarBirds

• is of no major concern,
  can not be controlled by the admins,
  can not be controlled by squadron COs.

To implement a rule against espionage in WarBirds is merely an optical illusion , which can not be fortified towards any workable solution. It is unneccessary.

For the reasons given above,

I, as Commanding Officer of Legion Condor JG69
will not sign any agreement concerning espionage in WarBirds.

Regards

 

Go to Nicae Central (link in any of his posts), and check FAQ. Solution there

 

thx Broz, worked ofcourse

sry for offtopic;

 

Glad to help

 

Re: Hi All!

RL espionage and Warbirds espionage can't be compared. In real life spy to be dead/disable as soon he was found. Now I know 7 spies but I can't stop them.

Many squad have such rule as "have a profound respect for another pilots, don't allow flaming, don't harm the gameplay"

Good spying have the ENORMOUS effect in reaching the reset.
It is widely used by spies for attacking and defending.

On attack:
- full control of attacked field (type, number, direction of cons)
- full control of enemy channel (attack was detected or not)
- control of intention of the enemy
- help find optimal route for transport plane
- full control of all targets over field

On defending:
- spying of enemy common channels and squad channels about the planned operations
- full control of enemy bombers (spy can find the bombers if all dars are dead)
- control of enemy "furballers"
- in 20% helps to know the enemy transport location, in 60% helps to know the number of transport planes, in 40% knows the time need for transport to reach the field

The most persistent:
- give incorrect dar status
- give incorrect reoptime
- join the common raid (by private) and prevent the raiding operation

Till the major of pilots have conscience and morality we can agree to stop espionage.
You have time to reconsider your sollution.

 

You see!

@ Mixer

Your attempt to stop spying at WB is honourable, it is appreciated, but very impracticable.
You wrote:

You are dreaming to stop them by agreement of squadron COs?
Sorry, but that will remain a dream. So, we will have to live with it/them (the spies).

Just let them (the spies) do their game and plan yours accordingly, knowing that they are allways there. In Legion Condor a mass raid is planned via TeamSpeak. The information available, even on Ch 110, is minimal.

1. never waste time with defensive operations, because you can not win a reset by defending fields
2. destroy radars of surrounding fields before attempting an offensive strike
3. fly below radar height whenever possible, so your force is not visible on your own radars even
   [/list=1]
   
   Sorry, definitly NO! To the contrary, I would even say, it has never had any effect and will not have any in the future.
   
   All fo those factors are managable without taking a glance at enemy radar.
   1. the cons will be seen and dealt with upon arrival,
   2. we couldnґt care less, if the raid was detected beforehand or not
   3. how do you controll that by spies is news to me
   4. that is done individually by the transport aircraft, which most of the time is at/near the target field beforehand
   5. we always have full controll of all the targets by the reports of own attackong pilots.
   
   I herewith invite you to participate in any of the raids of Legion Condor`s and see for yourself.
   BTW, have you looked into the statistics lately?
   Find out, which squadron is the most successfull one in the field capturing business - and that is by far the best !
   
   Why dont we just stop arguing about this side effect of spying in WarBirds?
   
   Regards

 

I agree with Rapier.
As long as there is no chance to control it, we have to accept espionage.
And it makes no sense, if maybe 90 % won`t use espionage if the rest will do it..

 

im with u mixer;
mb it wont work, but at least smbdy doing sth to stop that kind of cheating!
wtg

guys, just agree with the concept - if some of us want to cheat, let 'em cheat and think they r better; f... them...

 

Re: You see!

Already done. No effect, the squad leader say "I don't know, I have no idea, I am not responsible for all pilots, etc"

I'll open the data on 3 spies in next thread.

Of course we will be forced to live with spying, but it's better to know that 2-3 alone spies exists on arena and know their nicks then play with discredit to every pilot.

BTW, How can I trust LC if your squad don't wanna sign the non-spying agreement?

Thx for info, but I know how to plan good raids

You can't be safe from interceptors if you kill all dars on enemy map because spy see you buffs at your radar.

You can't be safe on low-lvl raid from CV to fxx if spy is sitting in the twr of CV.

You can't be safe on low-lvl raid even in the case two of your pilots get alt below dar on take off.

Check my sample in the next thread. Many of 228, 72ag, 1st Czech Lions raids ware break up by spies.

Because the oranized spying has enormous effect.
Got the arguments in the next thread.

 

suggestion:

1. allow own radar for all in flight
2. disallow logon to different colors with same ip - so
sharedconnection- users have no problem

Papers signed or not, rapier cannot talk for the whole squad i think.

 

Check out the spylist, 1st group: abrec-, flood-, gabba-

 

nice list of logged users flying and towerlamers.

i had a look who is parallel online and think the rest by myself...

 

Once more!

@ Mixer

Mixer wrote:

Just never do trust the LC - it is so simple, isnґt it?.

Just to be a bit more serious:

• I do not sign any agreement which I can not control within the squadron.
• I can not agree on anything on behalf of the squadron, I do not have the necessary mandate as CO for this kind of action.
• I have no means to find out, if any one of the squad members has a double account running simultaneously on two PCs and when.
• I do not have the tools for disciplinary action, even if I wanted them.

Rationale: Just forget about the subject of espionage on FH!
If I personally would be starting to not liking the present situation, I would have to resign as CO or even quit playing WB on FH.
Do you want me to?

Regards

 

Rapier is right, whats to stop someone signing up then carrying out spying anyway?

Best just to assume theres a spy and plan accordingly.





Mal

 

Sense of responsability, respect for others, honour.

Be sure, if AFVS sign it down and i find out any of our pilots do such things...poor pilot...

That's why I'm asking and bringing subject up in private list before signing.