OT: George Bush and Iraq

The time for pacifism is over. The time to rationalize one's evil deeds because someone else has done them also, is over.

It's time to stop fucking around and clean house.

LOL. How's that for a pleaseant note?

 

I see too many missing the point This is not about Nations and thier relationships... Its about fellow human beings and THIER relationships. 'Love me for being a loving American, and I will love you for being a loving ...(fill in the blank nationality )
Thats step 1. In a short time on the 'human' timescale from now it reads, 'Love me for being a loving 'human being'
My friend Racerx has reminded me these things, (tho sometimes I would not listen because I was too caught up in everyday 'shit'). I love him and I love you. The 'name' of the religion is naught. We WILL survive as a race because we all meet along our way those few that make us put aside our pride and honour and make us realise again we are all family, kin(sorry I know only english terms)
Remain open to those around you that seem 'special'. I have and thereby see the hope for us all. And our children

 

My respect for by-tor just increased a great deal.

But lobo, we aren't going to war over ones "Evil Deeds". We're going to war over OIL!!! Do we really give a shit over all the hoopla that he has weaponry? No, this is proved by the fact that we are pretty much IGNORING North Korea! Who ADMITS they are making nuclear weapons!!! We're dealing with obviously the wrong people, and doing so because we want and need oil!

It's modern day imperialism.

mike afi m
www.swindleband.cjb.net

 

It's a difficult situation..... Look here, Saddam Hussein IS a bastard and I'd love to see him bite the big one. No shit!

But I feel uncomfortable with the American "justification". Like AFI said, how come the US want to wage war on Iraq but leave N. Korea and numerous other countries in relative peace? Is it just oil?

I respect the USA too much to just go and say "It's all about oil.". I think George W. is trying to prove his dick is bigger then his dad's or something.

In the end, it's just another way to die for numerous innocent people.

 

one more pic

 

LOL BROZ

 

Afi: what people don't understand is that as soon as the United States and Russia go into a deal over the millions of barrels of oil under Siberia, we will simply be able to say to the Arabs, yes, Fuck you, all you have is dirt

Besides, if we wanted to control the oil in the middle east, we don't need Iraq. Look at Israel, from there the US has a giant base of operations. Iraq is a bunch of sand with a psycho with a 400,000 man army,who advanced his way up through the pecking chain of the Bath party as a torturer. I would not trust that man with a BB gun...

People think that bush is leading us to war against Saddam, ha! We have been at war with Iraq for 10 damned years in which skirmishes between NATO aircraft and Iraq Air Defense units occured daily.

Some of you complain that the US is ignoring the UN. The UN has made itself a joke over the past decades because when it comes to resolutions, the UN lacks the balls to enforce them. So what does Saddam do? He ignores everything the UN tells him.

 

It's called military strategy people. You don't fight everyone at once. Whose to say that actions against NK haven't already begun beyond the eyes of the loud mouthed liberal press?

The world, not just the United States will deal with North Korea all in good time. However, no one wins in a Nuclear War.

 

Lobo don't act like we don't know jack shit with the "military strategy" stuff.

Yes, it's a military strategy to not fight everyone at once. But let's face a fact. NK is building nukes and they admit it!!!! Unless the US Gov't has some info that they won't say, then they are solving the wrong problem!!!!

mike afi m
www.swindleband.cjb.net

 

If you were about to challenge a country known to have nuclear weapons, would you tell the world about it? Look what happened when the sovs deployed ICBMs in Eastern Europe during the 1980s. There were mass protests in West European countries that the west should NOT counter deploy.

If we openly decided to challenge NK today, everyone would be all about the US threatening to start a nuclear war. Once again the US would be the bad guys.

 

U.S. is doing the same, Lobo.

U.S. has huge oil reserves, but they are keeping those reserves, oil in the U.S. costs one third of its price in Europe, and it is oil from all around the world but U.S., once the rest of the world reserves run dry... then U.S. will start using its own reserves, while the rest of the world will be fucked.

First, it was called Baas party AFAIK, second, it has an army of over 1.000.000 (one million), third, huge reserves have just been found there. You should know your "enemy" better

Do you know the difference between "arab" and "muslim"? what people can be called arabs? do you think that people from Libia are "arabs"? AFAIK "arabs" mean also Saudi Arabian people, allied of U.S., and means Kuwait people, allied of U.S., Afghans are not "arabs", not all "arabs" are "fanatic muslims", the biggest muslim country in the world is Bangla Desh, and there are no "arabs" there but a lot of fanatic muslims, "Chechens" aren't "arabs", but they sure are fanatic muslims.... the list goes on.

It seems to me that U.S. people keeps talking about this subject without really knowing what they are talking about.....

U.S. says that they are going to break all the treaties they signed during the end of the cold war.... if they are getting weapons... why shouldn't Korea make the same? AFAIK Korea didn't attack U.S. back in the 50's, but U.S. attacked Viet-Nam, Korea... without being attacked.... if one "side" must fear an attack without any reason, regarding history, thats the "side" opposite to U.S., as U.S. is the one that "loves" attacking other countries when they like it.

 

@LOBO

this is for you to read with greetings from the old Europe...

Top 11 signs you are either George W. Bush or Kim Jong Il.

11. You were a drunken party-boy who now finds himself the leader of a nuclear power.

10. You are often confused with your father because you share two-thirds of his name.

9. You threaten war to get oil.

8. Platform shoes, lifts, cowboy boots...

7. In times of international difficulty you turn to Clinton cabinet member Bill Richardson.

6. Vanity: permed hair, 14 thousand dollar suits.

5. You were installed through the political and financial machinations of your father.

4. You are a military leader despite questionable military background.

3. Your dad sold chemical & biological weapons and/or mechanisms of delivery to Saddam Hussein.

2. You've run your own economy into the ground and South Korea is pissed at you for your intransigence.

1. Persistent gaffes undermine domestic propaganda efforts to establish cult of so-called personality.

 

amen to that perdomo.

I live in the US, and although I enjoy living here...

I dislike our government and politics with a burning passion. It would be interesting, and probably a better place, if the US Gov't didn't have the world under it's boot.

mike afi m
www.swindleband.cjb.net

 

I was seeing a thing on tv, about anti-war movements in US. One of the manifestants said something like that:

"As before, in previous wars [read gulf '91 and vietnan], mostly the west coast and the east coast are against it. But not until the center is convinced that it's a bad thing, not only that ranch man in Texas [i loved this part, this 2 meaning senteces... ] is convinced that it's wrong, not only that happens, nothing will change."

I live in foreign country, so I can't tell if that is true or no, but it seems to me to be so. Is it ?

 

NK doesnt have nukes yet, or do they?
i havent seen anything on their nuke tests, and only read they are restarting their nuclear *project*.

yet it is admitted that they are restarting the project.
iraq denies any mass destruction weaponry, and inspections are confirming it.

so war with iraq!

 

400,000 fully trained soilders were the estimates as of 2001. I don't know where you got your info so I can't comment on that.

It seems you have things fiqured out. So I will fold. Only time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

 

You are quite right IMHO.

US are supporting Israel which has nukes and well..you name it. Civilians are killed there nearly every day. They deliberately attack on neighbouring countries once in a while.

Isreal is your friend because it doesnt tolerate muslims. Im sure Sharon would be happy to gas every muslim in this world to death.

But ones evil deeds dont matter if hes on the side of USA. Those horrible actions are actually supported.

Saddam could poison kurds in 1980s with acceptance of US. He was friend of USA back then, because he attacked Iran. USA sold masses of weaponry (surely including nerve gases) to Irak.
Yeah Saddam was your friend.

Just like Sharon is now. Both undoubtely madmen. Then again Taleban was helped in power by US...well well well. Commies were Evil bad guys back then.

I wonder if someone really believes all that weapon propaganda.

All that "Evil" talk...its like talking about Santa. No grown up can possibly digest things so black and white.

 

Can I throw a spanner into the works? please, please, can I

North Korea is restarting Nuclear Reactors (Ones which also have a capability to produce weapons grade plutonium)

They are restarting the reactors because like the rest of the world at present their economy is very weak.

By Restarting the Reactors they will reduce the amount of (Yes you guessed it) OIL, that they HAVE to buy (Yup, guessed it again) from the USA.


Malino

 

Lobo, don't get into that too deeply. They wouldn't listen. They're ignorant. No one is going to change his opinion here, and considering the fact that here on FH many people from many rather anti-american nations such as Germany, Russia, Finnland, Argentinia and Brazil are present, you'll always fight in numerical inferiority. Even if you could open up eyes of one guy, what would that help? World politics are not decided in that forum here anyway. Their whole arguments are made up so badly. Guess what they would say if the US would now threaten NK the same way they do currently with Iraq? Do you honestly think they would agree with it? No, they'd call the US war mongers again, saying that Pakistan also posses nuclear weapons and they'd rather take care about Iraq, which is in violation of UN sanctions since day one. You can't even make a point to them by stating that Iraq is supporting palestinian terrorist attacks and is a threat to the only true democratic, liberal, constitutional state down there, Israel, because most ppl here hate Israel, calling her mighty measures for trying to keep their population safe from crazy suicide bombers "state terrorism" and so on. So, whatever the US do, it will be offended by those anti-americans anytime.
You know, they simply ignore the facts. They ignore the fact that Iraq is in almost daily violation of UN resolutions when opening up on western aircraft in the no-fly zones. They ignore the fact that Iraq targets and downs predator recce drones until now, even if they are counted as a part of UN inspectors utilities to determine disarmament. They ignore the fact that there haven't been inspectors in the country since the end of 1997, giving Iraq the opportunity for 5 years to enhance and develope its hiding program for wmd. They ignore the fact that Iraq is playing a game.
There is a pretty much obvious pattern going on, see here:

First of all, some 3 months ago, Iraq heavily dismissed the UN's urge to enter inspectors back into Iraq after they were thrown out in 1997. It took about 3 weeks or so, and he finally let them in.
Then, he didn't agree on the inspectors having full access to special sites like palasts and mosques. It did take some days, and he agreed.
Then, iraqi scientists refuse to speak to UN inspectors in private? Why? It would be good for their country, if there was nothing to hide, wouldn't it? Hm, maybe because they know more than would be healthy and they are AFRAID as hell to talk, because Saddam's secret police is monitoring them and they don't want their family to end up dead?
And until now Iraq is still denying recconaissance flights of predator drones over Iraq, which are clearly a part of the inspections written in resolution 1441.
So, the pattern is, Saddam is again playing on time. Inspectors demand, Iraq refuses, then agrees. Inspectors demand, Iraq cleans up, then agrees. Got it? Well, would be too bad to have surveillance a/c around, they could id movements and with IR sensors weapons freshly covered in the sand somewhere in the desert.
They also didn't understand that the burden is up to Iraq to prove his disarming. Some 100 inspectors CANNOT find damn shit in a country as big as Iraq if the regime is actually not wanting to disarm, had 5 years time to sophisticate anti-inspection methods and must be begged for everything. In resolution 1441 Iraq is required to show openly not that he doesn't have wmds, but to show how he is destroying prohibited systems, such as fuel suited for long range ballistic missiles, which was found by inspectors before 97. But not even a word on stuff like that in the so called "report". Instead inspectors found chemical warheads. Huh, where did they come from? Ah, wait, dear inspectors here are some others, we'll show you, somehow we forgot to mention it, but now that you found them, look here, and here. This is so funny.


Regards
heartc, Germany (huh?)