Hi. Tonight, after some flights flying like shit, i meet a ki84 and a ki61, so after a short combat (too short ), ki84 gets both of my fuel, causing me a double fuel leak. As my engine was stopping, i decide to ditch, and while i was stopping myself (those few meters to be stopped that are needed), the ki84 fires on me and kills my pilot. After a discussion amongst some pilots in the arena, i come to a conclusion: For -frog-, from 302nd, vulch a con ditching is ok. For allsop, from MLNS Flying Bulldogs (or something like that), is ok too. For yivan, from 303rd, vulching in any situation is ok too (supposedl only in raids, right?). Apparently (so they said), Texas Rattlesnakes do it too. Well, my conclusion is that, i don't usually kill many cons, but be awared all: whenever a plane jumps in front of me, i will shoot to his white plane to cause pk. If chutes come back, i'll shoot them. I'll do every dirty thing i can, as for some, this is war, not a game (to have fun). That until i give up (because fun is ruined; it's about to come, btw), or things change. So, sorry if i "fuck" a friend's statistics, but... life's a bitch, isn't?
This thread reminded me of how much I really like corn flakes and waffles. Hell, I really just like breakfast foods.
or u can just jump and save ur life/streak and give ur opponent a kill that he wants... choice is urs..
You could have jumped- ditching is a bad option here on FH, and as for myself- I always shout "Jump <planetype> <field>" before shooting- few do at least that.
BTW- AFAIR you were asking about vulching in general and not about ditchkilling. 1. Vulch in general is using Your superior E and SA to kill cons uping from a field. I do vulch, I won't stop it and I do not regreat that at all. 2. Ditchkilling is getting a deserved kill after the pilot who lost the fight decides to "give it a try" instead of accepting his fate and bailing off. I do bail if i loose 2 out of 3 controlls, wing, tail, eng- some risk ditching- their choice. I do kill those (asking them to bail first-in most cases), I won't stop it and I do not regreat that in most cases. 3. Shooting a bailed plane is another story. It's pure idiotism and a waste of ammo btw. You already won the fight and all you can do is piss somebody off and waste precious ammo and E. It's also a shamefull and lame procedure. I do not shoot bailed planes intentionally (well-it happens that i ping someone after blackout/redout, when I don't see the icon colour, but never do this INTENTIONALLY!). That's lame and mentioning even a slightest will to do so (what You've just did) makes me wanna puke BTW No2- mentioning our squad membership is also lame, as there surely are ppl in my Squad, who wouldn't agree with my view on points number 1 and 2. I do speak for myself and not for my Squadron- is it clear? However point number 3 is clear to all members of our squadron as it is one of our basic squadron rules not to shoot bailed pilots, failure to comply with this rule has already made one of 302nd pilots (I think that You all know who) a former member of the Sq after he killed a chute to end a concuring pilot's streak.
afaik, people that consider themselves as honorable: 1)kill ditched con when they forced them to ditch 2)ignore ditched con when they have not taken part it's downing 3)always can vulch takin-off cons 4)regard shooting white planes and chutes as useless 5)regard shooting con for vapourisation as possible, but not as a goal therefore Broz is wrong when ditching with winner nearby and frog is probably wrong when shooting cons damaged by others but you can ignore this post. it's not obligatory
Ermm, look at my post. I talked about ditchkilling, not vulching. And that's why the discussion started So wtg for you. Vulching in take off seems normal for me too So wtg for you again. I never shoot on ditching planes. I've already won the fight, and, IMHO that's what counts. Or are we playing just for points? Remember talking about quake and so..? There are so many things that make me wanna puke... My point was: no honor applied in ditched planes = no honor in any situation. That's all. Maybe i'll fire, maybe no, but i won't regret wether i do it or not. Why lame? Have you anything to be ashamed? Aren't you -frog- from 302nd? And i spoke about -frog- from 302nd, not about 302nd as a whole. So read my post first, pls, so no misunderstanding. @exec Yep, i will ignore your post, as we have different values and points of view. But thx for remembering some people thinks about some things as "honorable"...
when i started to play online, i leaved enemy when i killed only his eng or leak oil, and had only piece of my kills, cause i was thinking like in real life : when enemi plane is damaged, i leave the place as fas as i can,and an other finished the work and win the kill now i finish the work,cause fed up of stealers, but i know i was wright first, cause the aim of game is get fields and not get kills. Many times i see 4 or more planes chasing a con low, while high cons get get air supйriority. 2 plane on one is enouth
tigrou, i still usually leave damaged planes to rtb or ditch; if u care about ur kill/sortie or kill/death ratio u wont suffer from this, even if someone will steal ur kills often; why? its simple, most deaths are caused my loosing E or ammo on plane that cant threat u anymore, meanwhile others come with alt advantage and u find urself in bad position; when i started to leave damagded cons and regaining my good position for another attack my kill/death and kill/sortie ratio improved significantly; of course sometimes i go too low and die anyway or regret that after a hard fight i dont score a kill.. but lets take it easy
cc spuint, I'm not ready yet to care about kill/death etc. cause die too mutch, my problem is to not loose vis on con with the numpad what i wanted to say is that i don't anderstand pilot who dive on a broken wing plane to get kill.
I don't steal! Never, moreover I always try to point out who's stealing when I see such behaviour on arena. Some apologize (as for example -jsfe- who accidentally "finnished off" a Spitfire of mine yesterday) some don't, even when they've just stolen a kill from a newbie and he's dramaticly asking on country's channel about his kill. I tend to bitch those people, and I won't stop doing this also. Some thiefs are newbs and those are quickly forgotten the shamefull procedure, some do specialize in getting others kills, some do this by accident. Some months ago I used to ping cons to get assists, but after vlamik- bitched me for doing so I completely stopped. So pls- don't call me a killstealer, because I'm not the example of this lame race!
therefore conflict is: 1) player A fights for victory player B fights for scored kill 2) player A lost to player B by own terms and supposes that it is enough player B did not win over player A by own terms and seeks for victory in his own terms 3) player B scores 1 kill A in own terms player A is offended by overkill from B, since he lost twice by his terms: he lost fight and he is killed. as for me, i don't consider such conflict of terms as interesting. FranzAugust illogical
After some months playing here, and improving my fighting skills, I noticed that general ambiance had changed, and started to loose fun. Too many people playing just for points, no chivalry, no mercy, no fellowship... so I got a solution (my solution), I quit flying fighters and learnt how to fly bombersv (of course, after that, and for personal/work conditions, I quit playing it I have just come back, things seem have calmed down a bit, but...). Yes, you get killed from time to time, but usually u are out of reach of most furballers, bug abusers, lamers, whinners.... whatever. Of course there are buffers that fly at 3k mtrs, but I always take alternative routes, and don't attack a field until at last at 9k mtrs... so the usual fighter pilot gets tired of chasing me after a few minutes (they just want to have kills, and they don't like spending time...). Some really good fighter pilots chase me, and usually they shoot me down, but hey, they deserve the kill and I have got my fun ratio. But of course every flight takes from 50 minutes to one hour and a half (except in my loved "mosquito"... ). Anyway, my point here is: I understand Broz, because it's sometimes hard to understand why people can't act with "honor" and let you ditch. But I have also seen many people waiting at a field, for long minutes, in a ditched plane, just to wait until the field is capped... and their opponents are denied a kill. So I understand that some pilots decide to kill a ditching con. Broz should have jumped. But waht I think that has upset the most Broz, is general attitude after this happened. Frog was complaining the other day because he was killed in an empty Ju52, and after that he justifies Broz's kill... hey, if one rule is applied to Broz, it should be applied to Frog too... that's my point. In fact, if you have ever been mad when loosing a streak, if you have ever said on ch100 "why did u kill me? I was ditching (or ditched, or w/o ammo, fuel or whatever...)" then the least you should do is shut your mouth when you see other people doing it. Try to understand, and collaborate to calm down things. But instead some people, like Frog, decided to start abusing Broz, as lamer, whinner... etc. How can you call someone things like that when you have had the same attiutde days before? In conclusion, IMHO, there is not only one way to fly, but as many as pilots. We can't ask for "honor" or things like that because everybody's got his own idea about that, and hey, this is just a game. But if you aren't directly concerned in a discussion, as frog wasn't, the best thing you can do is try to calm people arguing, or else STFU. As for myself, I will go on flying buffer (with the odd fighter sortie or two), keeping away from stupid discussion, and trying to calm Broz (for those of you who didn't know, he is my brother IRL). @Frog: no personal offense mate, but if you ask "why did you mix me in this stupid discussion?" remember it was you who made it when entering a conversation when you weren't asked to do so, and saying things you shouldn't have said if you were coherent (you know, saying "white" today and "black" tomorrow...). @afi: if you have nothing positive to say... @everybody else: I am sure Broz will calm down and play as he uses to, he is a nice guy (usually ), but anybody who goes on calling him lamer/whinner/whatever, will have to prove that himself has never cried "shit" in anger when shot down in an stupid way or by someone who couldn't show the minimum mercy... Enough for today... Let's go back to and and , and btw, never fly a fighter at alts over 6k mtrs... edited to correct my english
For the most part, I agree Perdomo. I couldnt care less about getting killed when ditching these days. I tend to look on it as my own fault for being so desparate to deny my opponent his kill (which is effectively all anyone is doing). The good thing to look at is that there is still a much higher level of honour in FH than there is in any other online game ive played. It's also got the best community (perhaps the two go hand in hand? ) so at least bear that in mind whenever you get angry at someone else's actions. -glas-
Honour? Lmao- ditchkilling is also risky in terms of loosing E to get low- in fact I always ask if I may go a mile or two before I jump when I want to preserve streak and a con is on my six. Some pilots like for example sonar-, -chip- of FB; --ms-- from III/3WP, thefox from JG27 and others allow me to do so, so do I if i read in ch100, some don't. That's hnour IMHO and starting a flamewar on Forum isn't a honourable thing- or is it? I was killed not in ditched, but in properly landed Ju52. I always play to help the side which I'm fighting win the conflict. I did not whine- I only said sth like "LMAO score freak- I've lost my streak but gained the field" "try too shoot paras instead of me next time" (on saturday I'll be back in Lublin and can provide you with console log as proof, as I'm now in the second city I live in- namely Chełm, far away from my own PC). ABUSING PEOPLE IS STARTING SUCH FLAMEWARS (and I'm only defending myself against abuse now). I made some mistakes like that previously, but will never make that again- now I contact ppl on private, according to Sebbo's advise (thanks for it mate). I wasn't concerned? So why is my name mentioned in topic post? "STFU"?- mind Your dictionary man, that is Your own way of calming ppl down? Does not work with me. Sorry, but I would kick anybody's ass for using such words in front of me in the street, the fact that it is an Internet forum and ppl are quite anonymous in here does not mean that You have the right to use such vocabulary. Good, so why do You take par in discussion then and flame me? You're not taking it coherently too- You accuse me of "mixing up in this" while doing exactly the same thing (or even worse, cause You weren't mentioned by -broz). And finally- I don't feel personally offended by You, except for that part with "F" word. I do feel offended by idea of starting flame, concieved by -broz-.
Mhhh, frog, since when expressing an oppinion is start a flame? Read my post, i just said: "-frog- from 302nd says....", so i copied here your oppinion, expressed in MA. Is that start a flame? Maybe you have something to regret on what you said? Else, i don't know why you feel offended to me by saying that. So pls, explain. Actually, i should be offended, because in arena you called me whiner, and here you've called me lamer, while i haven't insulted you. That's why STFU. And about perdomo's oppinion posted here, he has the same right as me, as we're brothers, while you were just an spectator, and didn't have any right to enter the original discussion (the one in MA). Of course you can do whatever you want, but there are consequences (people answering to you). About me starting a flamewar... Well, you see flames where there aren't. I just posted my oppinion, and a warning to those who i'll beat in MA. That's all. I didn't even want any answer, just wanted to express myself in a "physical" way. So, once again, you're entering where you shouldn't. You're playing the macho role here? Well, again wtg ( ) Coclusion: If you (or anybody else) sees a flame here, correct your point of view, as i don't want any (i've had enough during the time i've been here), or explain where do you see any "flamewar" (stupid word, btw), and i'll try to explain it better. Ok? Now go and relax
In fact I'd respond equally agitated when someone tells me to stfu... well maybe it's normal where you live (no I'm not saying anything, don't get mad at me) but over here it's not all that normal. I don't think anybody's got the right to tell anybody else to stfu. Telling somebody stfu is pretty macho anyway, so I'd say Perdomo's doing the macho job there. And NO this is not personal, I'd say this to ANYONE who says stfu to ANYONE and then reverses the situation. A simple, "'n else don't say a word" suffies just as well... <Z>
