To be short, i have a question about Ki-43. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4N3YobtkB8 I have a feeling that this plane has better roll rate and feels lighter than our Oscar...Mb this looks more like our I-16 .. What do u think?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakajima_Ki-43 Well, after reading the above link maybe the plane we see in the film is that 13th prototype? Also consider that the film shows the not yet painted, no guns, stripped-down test model I can imagine one can get that kind of performance as in the film. At least for a few runs before the wings fall off....... I'm sure that drop tanks, armor, guns and ammo will make it a little less quick handling. Should be a fun plane to fly anyway but better than a zeke, I don't think so.
Mb, but then u think we pay the price for our green skin and those small small 2x12,7 mms? With only 540 bullets? I have no problem with that as long as I-16 is also modelled as painted .. Serious now, this clip is part of video i have , its called "japanese army plane of ww2" and its collection of all army planes, including real painted already flown aircrafts. I know many of you guys dont like zeke, but A6M is not such great plane once ur in it on fh, especially A6M2 the first version, it only makes u frustrated , above 300km/h its rather pathetic. Not to mention guns etc etc. Now , those 2 models, A6M and Ki-43 are supposed to be an example of agile planes , and thats all they are supposed to be. Problem is not if you compare it to P-40 or spits, but we simply today dont have arena to compare it with spits. We created some virtual history , where people fly I-153 or even I-16 to counter the ki. I know , it says a lot about those pilots, ok, but there is a reason why they fly those certain types of planes. Dont get me wrong here, i love all planes in here, im in love with all types and wish to fly all types. But the problem guy can have in here is if he wants to fight against lets say BNZ type of planes. Normal would be to take ki-27 or ki-43 or even zeke, if it is lets say 1941. But then he wont encounter P-40s, nor Laggs etc. He will find I-16s and I-15s and again I-15..And that is a problem for every normal ordinary pilot who has desire to have some sort of challenge. Why? Because if he takes ki-27 , he will have no chance against I-15. If takes zeke, or ki-43, he will have to do BNZ type of attacks on those small bugs. And early jap planes were known and will be known as agile fighters, and planes for turn and burn. You understand my point ? If we continue like this, we will be forced soon to fly I-16 as boom and zoom machine, of course if we introduce new small monsters. Then what? What is our perspective? I like both sides, i like reds and golds , i like difference. But if i fly I-16 or lagg, i want to feel like those pilots felt, i want to know im in a part of history. Current planes we have now do not reflect history imho. Who flew LAGG in 1.66 he knows what im talking about, what it is like to fly hard plane, to feel like part of russian early war history . But today same LAGG can dogfight with 109, and ki-43 became hit and run plane because of some small bugs . And this is frustrating, there is no challenge for many good pilots in here. There is no possibility to love some and only specific plane, and is no wonder why we have pilots who fly I-15 to counter ki , instead of lagg or p40 or p39... I think i will never be able to express in words how much feels bad to take ki-27 , to have some challenge, to give f4fs a chance, to have only 2 small 7mms, to have fun, and then 5 mins later, see snoopy with some noob eager for easy kills... Many ppl died in f4f, many ppl died in I-15, those planes were legends, love for country those pilots had, for families, knowing they go to risk their life, without some good chance to win, yet they still flew. And here ppl take those planes flying without style without tactics without brain, yet they have that chance to rack up free kills without any effort. For me that is very sad, simply because if i take 190 i want to know i have speed, if i take ki-43 i want to feel agility , and i want to feel that my chance for success is not 80% because of plane im in..
I agree with Dem, it's sad to play early war and find snoopys all around, then u fly late war and find LA's and Ki84 all around. Then, it's worse to see that noobs rammin their planes onto u, 'cause they see that can't win a fight, then they ram into u. It's strange, why both planes don't get dmged or killed by a colli? Hey Dem, do u get some idea about this topic? Or things will be the same?
From the Wiki-article I gave the link for : "...The Ki-43-II was also fitted with 13 mm armor plate for the pilot's head and back, and the aircraft's fuel tanks were coated in rubber to crude form of self-sealing tank. The pilot also enjoyed a slightly taller canopy and a reflector gunsight in place of the earlier telescopic gunsight.[8] Nakajima commenced production of the Ki-43-II at its Ota factory in November 1942.[9] ..." [9] ^ Francillon 1970, p. 210.
I don't how much truth there is to it but I've read from several sources that the Ki-43 was indeed an even better turner than the A6M.
Yes, I feel your pain. Just like "in the old days" the dweebs flew only the 190s did a bunch of vulching and BnZ while flaming on the radio how good they were and how stupid their victims were. Then when someone would get the best of them, they would self kill, run to acks and scream their opponents were cheating. then there were the 110 uber planes with the 30mm tailgunners and the wingless zekes on fire not only still flying but accelerating-climbing and out-manoeuvring the plane that just shot off their wing(s). I remember Laggs were a bitch to fly in 1.66 For any given situation there will always be an uber plane set. If I understood correctly Oscar victories were mostly had in the early war against older planes in the more remote theaters where Oscar pilots had all the advantages. Is there a comparison chart of roll rate for all the planes here? Do you think the Ki-43 roll rate/turn rate was better than the zeke? 153? What is your proposal to correct the Ki-43 ?
Could be: http://78sentai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=339 Lot's of talk about that Ki43 . Maybe it deserves a little dev tweaking?
I have full faith in our admins and devs I know they work on a game, i know they work on damage model, i know they will make good plane set, tomorrow or in some time, but they will. What i need to say here when i started thread like this , is, fh is always changing, and we love this game, and we love it even if it stays like this. Tnx to all who made possibly to fly on fh for free) Yes, that is true. But not quite. Early war is relative term depends on the country u observe. 1943 is not what i would desribe as early. But yes Ki-43 was superior to lets say P-40b , F4F etc etc. And it is IMHO on fh superior to these planes. I dont have any problem with ki having problems against F4U . I dont have any problems if P-39 is faster. I want that, i like that. The problem i see is , many pilots do not know how to fight versus ki-43 if they are in faster plane. So they take I-153. And I-153 is turning imho faster than server can stand. And that is problem because guy who wants to fly ki is ready to be in worse position when he encounters f4u. But he mb is not ready to fly BNZ just because we have fokker dr1 on server. Its perfectly normal imho to have gold advanatge in the early war and red in late. But it is not normal for me to have problems on gold side in early war and in late war. I can take lets say 109 , from Emil to Karl and to fly BNZ and to never ever have any problem with reds. But i think this is not good for gameplay. People should be free to choose whether they will turn, dogfight or hit then run. Simply for me its not normal to fly ki and to be outturned by some red plane, then to fly ki and to be outrun by some other red plane. there is no point for a plane then to exist at all, it is armed with 2x12,7mm, all my kills are not mine, they become only pieces of some other gold 109. And plane that was famous for its agility, is not famous at all, it becomes useless. Understand my point? Lets say u take ki27 to have some fun in it. Well u wont have any fun, because those 2x7mm u have on ki27 will go all in 1 plane without kill. And 1 just 1 I15 can kill u rather easy because of its turn, energy dynamics and guns. So we have situation where 10 golds fly 10 emils in early war, and 10 reds fly 10 i15s. So, if u ask emil pilots why emil why not d520, they will have an answer . Go and ask i15 pilots why i15 why not spit why not d520 why not hurri why not f4f, they will have an answer. Listen to that and contemplate why is easier to be red and in i15 than to be in emil. And if that was the case in real war, i dont think USA would ever produce f4u, p38, they would simply order I-series from russians and win the war..Problem here is that emil pilots need to have some skill to survive near spits and hurris, but i15 pilots do not need any skill on fh. Same thing is with later 109 series, golds will always need to learn something new and to watch and to have great SA, while reds will be in position to outmanuver them or outrun them etc. And 109 was a great plane, but it also needed good pilot . And lagg was a plane, not good, but it had great pilots. And i15 was just a plane and it needed good pilots to win. On the other hand , ki43 and zeke were good planes, and they didnt need good pilots to win vs slow and hvy american iron. I am not sure about this one, sorry. U can check original data for wb on Hoofs page http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/ What i know is that ki43 had for sure better roll than A6M2 , that it had better turn than all zekes, and i think I THINK its modelled here like that. Correctly. (zeke is here really idiotical plane useful only in short near furballs) What im not sure about ki43 on fh is, if it can perform like that u have seen on the video. I noticed that we in common talk always use word "turner", but what i think about ki43 is that it was "agile". I think ki43 is agile plane on fh ,i must tell you i never tested it fully in fights like vs zeke or something like that, so im not sure is it turning better or worse than zero. I know it has good roll, but im not sure how good it is. The reason for this is, if u compare ki to p40, its agile. If u compare it with i16, i dont think ki43s roll is great. If u compare it with i153 , i dont think ki43 is great turner. In fact ki is hit and run plane comparing to i153. And mb all parameters are ok, but then i question real war , i question germany and its success in early war on eastern front. And what is the most important for us , i question purpose of existence of ki27 , ki43, zeke on fh. Because whole picture is changing if u introduce fokker dr1 , then what was good turner becomes hit and run plane.. I dont have wb data for current planes, but i think that if i16 can roll so good like ours, if i15 can turn as good as ours, then i think i think we must make ki43 to do those flip flops like u saw on that video . I know its big post, i hope ull understand
I would like to remind that roll speeds of all planes are underestimated in WB, limited by the flight model. That's how it was back in my days on FH, and Illo fought quite a lot for better roll speeds overall (especially his 190s). As for the turn speed of the Ki43, my favorite when I was building up streaks for AFVS, it's superb! Better than everything except the i-153s. As you, I don't like the way i153 behaves in the game and it might be out of the engine's limits. Anyway, I remember always simply running away from the 153s, and that wasn't hard at all. I actually felt kind of sorry for their pilots ;P I understand the frustration of needing to turn against p40s and needing to run against 153s, but isn't that the purpose of the game afterall? Flying to your plane's strengths and against your enemy's weaknesses? I remember valueing 3 things above all in my millions of FH sorties: 1. Situational awareness (I was paranoid, actually.. kept checking six even in my dreams lol), 2. teamwork (i just loooooved squad hunting sorties, everybody paired up!) and 3. knowing and understanding every plane on FH: When should I run and when should I turn, in each and every combination possible. In 3., sometimes you're just screwed: You've got 3 i16s furballing under you and 2 p51s vulching your middle-class 109. But if you get screwed into a position like this, you did something wrong from the start! But, as you can see, I'm not saying the numbers in FH flight model are correct. I just don't know! ;P Good luck!
Nice post Nicae I will have to use it though , to make some point here, mb even make this subject wider. I respect what u said , respect your point of view. But i must point out something that is mostly forgotten when it comes to the basis of this sim. I know that people like to think this game is not realistic, but there is one aspect of warbirds fh that is more than realistic. Since i started flying few years ago, i have been hearing about "correct way to fly ", "hunting" , "realistic playing" etc. All tutorials i have found during this time, teaching new pilots how to do something, how to "choose" situation, how to decide when and where to kill. That is what is not realistic, and that is where wb fh is closer to reality. In real life, ww2 was not a joke, u couldnt just simply choose whether u will fight or not. Many pilots here read too much about Germans on the eastern front, and forget about Russians, about Americans, about Japanese. People read about 300 kills of some pilot, what method he used, they write manuals for virtual pussiness. Reality was about war, no one wanted to compete there, they just had to do the job . And the job mostly was buff escorting, buff attacking, and most of combats were products of those situations where u couldnt just decide for urself . You get orders, you follow them. If i tell you , Nicae, go there kill that buff, you cant answer me :" Sorry, i wont fight now, i have streak to save". We have scorepages here, yes, but it is bad for fh, the way it functions is bad for gameplay. I am seeing people bailing without fight, to save their streak, i am seeing people sitting in downed plane for 30 min just to save streak when their group captures field. If their group captures field. they do not worry if someone needs their help. They want a number. So, this is where comes that part about 51s above and i15s below. That is reality, sooner or later you will have to take that fight, whether u like it or not. If u care for something more than number , you will be in that position. If u care for skill u will be again in that position. If u care about ur team that situation just waits you. You will attack bombers in ki27 to defend ur field, to defend ur teritorry ur team mates. That is FH WB. In reality , u would not encounter i15 and 51 together, u would have advantage in the first or in the second part of war. But u would have it. So , yes, most of planes can run. Some can fight it. Depends on a skill level. But would u agree to have ur skill at 100% level , and to fight always against noobs? Would u accept always harder way that will make u a superb pilot, but then never to have challenge again? I would never accept that. Challenge is when u have some chance, at least small one. Challenge is not when u cant win at all. I like challenge and im most of time forced to fly some plane i never flew, just to have some sort of challenge. Why? Because i am good? No. Because too long i fly on harder way , and same amount of time other side is flying on easier. So today people dont become better, it is happening opposite process, people becoming noobs. Do u believe me when i say to u , that every red plane i encounter, whatever guns it has, it goes first for head on? Same thing happens on gold side. People just take easy plane, they just go for kill. They compete , not in 1 vs 1 fights, they compete who will insult other guy more. Whining, insulting, commenting.... They even dare to comment from todays uber planes, they have balls to comment when they spray from d7, and u firing from d4. Its all part of bigger picture. Pressure is too big to bear sometimes. Ill give u just one example from everydays playing. I take ki27 ( even if i always fly 109 190 p47 etc) i meet reds, we fight. I kill by pure luck Lagg3. Next sortie pilot from that lagg comes in I15. And i dont have chance against it. Not him, IT. It is not enough that i am being boomed zoomed by p40s spits, i have to deal with a plane that is better in every aspect than ki27. Better so much that when it turns u so easy (because u dont have time simply) misjudge position and get killed by those guns. Then after sometime ki43 comes out. I have never flown more than lets say 5 times ki43 before in my life. After few flights i see a question from some pilot , if i fly ki43 only because that is the only plane i know how to fly. Now that is too much. People hunt me in some uber little shit , people question my skill. Then time goes by , you see la5fn everywhere.(la5fn being the ultimate uber plane today). Ok , so i get pissed off, i take ki84 even if i hate that plane, thus not flying it. Then i see even more la5fns, la7s, people comment how they will fly la7 just because golds fly ki84. If u fly 109 g14 or k4, u will get comments how ur 30mm dweeb. If u take ki84 u will see comments . If u fly ki27, they talk about you. Ok, so what is the difference between them and you ? What is that what u cant do and they can? You can whine too, u can cry, u can insult, but what is it that u cant do today that they can? Answer is simple. They can fly I15 and u will have to run. You will have no plane that can match its turn. Ok so u run. Then comes the day when u cant even run anymore. With that day , comes the day when u cant even win turnfight. Then comes the day when u cant even win in dogfight. Oh, you do win. But not because of ur plane. You win because u never had a chance to win, and because u died 12345 times. And they? They become even more stupid, even more whining, even more idiotical. And then what my dear Nicae? Then comes the day when u cant have a challenge anymore , u know u can kill everytime in certain planes, and in other u can die more than often just because u dont have a chance. And u have to decide, whether ull become scorewhore, or dead. If u choose to live u will be untouchable, but will never have challenge again. If u decide to be the victim , u will take ki27, and u will be commented, insulted, and in the end, dead. Thats what im talking about here.
Until you find out that the plane that turns much better than yours is also accompanied by a plane that is much faster than yours.
Yeah, that's an old dilemma. Yesterday I flew the Ki-43 with some bombs, to help cap field. Then I vv 2 I-153 turning on me, dropped the bombs and runned as far as I could. Looked at hi 6 and found a Spit diving on me, 2 I-153 eager to see me turnin and a Typhoon on far right six, a LA on far left six. Hell, if I turn, I-153 kill me; if I run, LA, Tiffie and Spit eat me. Shit, I made some evasive rolls, escaped from Spit and Tiffie, when I vv my field again, the LA was firing on me, I turned and took some ShKAS hits (I-153...), some more I-153 hits, and then the Grand Finale, isaev- on his Typhoon sendin me to hell.... What can I comment? At least I stand so much BTW, am I the only idiot who fly Mc.202 and Mc.205 here? Shit, I know I can win a fight with them, until I find those fckn LAs. And I can't believe that italian guns ARE WORSE than Jap ones. WTF? I spent almost all my ammo on a Tiffie, and it's still flying till now.....
Well maybe Ki's shouldn't be fighting Russian planes at all then? I like flying the 153. I've flown it against all the golds bufs and fighters ;Ju88, 110, 109, 190 Zekes. I've lost and I've won. I don't keep track or score. Every fight was a challenge unto itself. I know when I screwed the pooch and I know when I dusted the other guy's cookies. and the other guy knows it too. That's all that counts. 99.999% of the time those players who whine and complain that the snoopy plane got the best of them were the dweebs in the 190s and 109s that only fly for scores and streaks and bragging rights within the commeradery of their dweeb associations. Vulchers and score whores who need their 15 minutes of internet glory. Ha ha ha. Dem; play your own game and not their game!
