P38

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by demian, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I quickly read and left.
     
  2. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you practice flying more, you won't end up like these. Too bad the P-38 was too much for you to handle.
    :mafia:
     
  3. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

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    I did notice something a bit weird, and maybe this has already been said. The autopilot seems to work on the F model, but it's still bonkers on the J, L models even with the new pit.
     
  4. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    The cockpit art won't change any flight characteristics. Well, it might make it feel like you're actually inside a fighter though. :)
     
  5. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    cockpit ok?!
     
  6. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing....

    :cheers:
     
  7. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    Yes! It looks great! :cheers: I like the needle designs you used. The only thing off it seems is the left/rear view where the external wing imagery moves around too much, exposing open area and, on the dash, the flaps needle doesn't match the hash marks. I could have created more lines for the flaps gauge though. That's my mistake. :shuffle:
     
  8. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    Good point. I had thought of that when I looked at the pictures for a while. Both images portray the occupant was able to put the aircraft down safely, and escape. :)
     
  9. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    ticks of the gauge are regular.
    angles of flaps are 0°, 8°, 20°, 45°, 60°.
    gauge works from 0° to 60°
     
  10. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so there are 5 positions with random degrees. Hmm.
     
  11. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

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    That's kinda normal for flaps, so I'll go with it.
     
  12. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking I should create lines in that flaps indicator to match up with the stopping positions of the needle.
     
  13. B4K3D

    B4K3D Well-Known Member

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  14. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    I've known about that P-38. Followed it for the years of progress and saw some flights. Nice report though. :)
     
  15. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    Can't wait till I log into the arenas with the new updates....:D
     
  16. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

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    [/B]What's wrong with this? Search for where it says "But wait--there's more"

    ------------------

    Also, out of a curiosity that arose when I flew the P-38 and Bf-110, one after the other, I was wondering if you could compare and contrast the FM data from the original WB 2.77 FM and the FH 1.6x data of the P-38 and Bf-110 and give us the information on what changed since then, presented with the data from both FM.


    I think I'm starting to understand stuff. :confused: FM of P-38, Fw-190 seem like they're right, but I can't explain why the elevator is so ineffective for them all right now. Anyone of a higher power have an answer for me to look at?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2011
  17. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

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    Never mind. I see what you did there. If effectiveness is increased, then stall danger is encountered more quickly with less warning causing people (mainly stick stirrers) to complain about FM more.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2011
  18. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

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    *IMFORMATIVE* TEST FH 1.69 FM for P-38-G-10

    I calculate turn radius with flaps up @ ~1220' with a sustained turn rate of ~17 deg/s @ ~380 km/h TAS.

    I calculate turn radius with maneuver flap setting (8 degrees/1st notch) @ ~1060' with a sustained rate of ~17 deg/s @ ~330 km/h TAS.

    There was virtually zero gain in rate with maneuver flap setting, but a noticeable reduction in radius.
    ---------------
    I am in the process of testing FM of adversary aircraft (Fw & Messer).

    Other interesting information

    Fw-190A-8

    Flaps up

    Radius of ~1496' @ sustained rate of ~13 deg/s @ ~370 km/h TAS.



    Bf-109G-6

    Flaps up

    Radius of ~950' @ sustained rate of ~19 deg/s @ 330 km/h TAS.

    1 notch flaps

    Radius of ~740' @ sustained rate of ~21 deg/s @ 290 km/h TAS.

    --------------------

    Notes and observations to follow after I get some sleep. :zzz:
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  19. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    Awesome mumble. :@prayer: Thanks for taking the time to test this latest release!
     
  20. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

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    *NOTES FROM TESTING*

    The flaps on the P-38 merely served to slow the plane down while preserving turn rate. This occurs due to several factors. 1) Increase in drag caused by the flaps. 2) No apparent drop in specific excess power. 3) No apparent significant increase in critical alpha.

    The design of the aircraft makes this possible due to the high aspect ratio wing and twin engine configuration.

    ----------------------

    The Fw-190 flaps just slowed the plane down, but with slight gain made over the P-38. The radius was only slightly reduced, and the rate was actually increased slightly greater than the P-38 by 1 deg/s. However, it is a bit tricky to get that performance, as the 190 wants to try and flick out of the turn.

    ---------------------------------

    The flaps on the Bf-109, simply put, are a pain in the ass. To get them to deploy, you need to slow well below corner speed, then dive away to get above corner speed before pulling back in.

    -----------------------

    CONCLUSIONS

    The P-38 is closely matched in sustained turn performance with the Fw-190. Due to the P-38's large mass (and inertia), the P-38 will lose in the initial development of a turn fight with a 190, with the P-38 ever so slightly beginning to lose angles on the 190 as the turn fight matures. In order to compensate for this, I would recommend an extremely aggressive entry at the merge, seeking a position where a very early lead turn is possible in order to have enough room to decelerate to flap deployment. This, however, will be very easily countered if the Fw-190 simply extends out of the fight, as the acceleration of the P-38 is poor in the regime of flight where maneuver flaps can begin to be deployed.

    The Bf-109 will easily turn inside of a P-38 due to having such a small turn radius, as well as a superior rate. It is ill advised to try and turn with the 109 under any circumstance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011