Refugee crisis

Discussion in 'Off Topic International' started by -frog-, Mar 11, 2022.

  1. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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  2. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    Almost a month and they have not found any?
    Strange ;)

    I think I saw more Ukrainians than Poles in the streets today.
    I guess they feel invited here.
    There are also training courses at all shooting ranges here... for those willing to greet the Russians too.
    Very popular (tried to book one for me and my wife, but all I could book was 2nd half of April).
    Our Russian friends advised me to learn using the AK (we have a more modern, NATO-chambered derivative here), I just need to "refresh" my skills (I trained with the old, 5.45 x 39 mm version - now our army is using the 5.56 x 45 mm one).
    I still guess their aggression against Poland, Romania or any of the Baltic States is not only highly unlikely, but also completely impossible, taking their shitty military position right now.
     
  3. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    Just like Afghanistan: The Russians are looking for the people who invited them
    But truth be told, that's quite a common phenomenom, isn't it? Techically speaking, the Russians were invited into Afghanistan (sure, by a questionable regime. Legal BS.). And yeah, maybe the guys doing the inviting were five or six guys installed by the Soviets in Kabul. Who really installed the current Ukrainian government? AFAIK, it was a fairly OK election , as elections go.

    I do think it's crazy, though, for the Ukrainian politicians to demand "fighting to the death" in cities like Mariapul, Kiev, etc. Looking at the situation objectively, however, won't it be better if the Ukrainian government tells it's forces to stop resisting, when they have no possibility of winning? Only the civilians will suffer. And I say this as a turbo-American-German who knows all about WW1 and WW2.

    The Austrian shithead named H*t*er loved that tactic of declaring cities to be fortresses. We should all remember that. Sometimes heroic resistance = massive death of civilians in war. Fuck it all.
     
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  4. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    Man, think about it. Don't get caught up in the emotions of the moment. It all sounds so grand in theory, but most of the time the untrained die quickly. You don't really want to get involved in that shit. Neither do I. You have a family. That's my advice for all combatants.

    Also: Fucking fuck fuck fuck, and extra fuck to reality, which is a bitch.
     
  5. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    Current govt SEEMS to be like OK, but previous elections were grounded on the ruins of Government, and Poroshenko was a dickhead of nazi formation and penetration into the power/govt in Ukraine.
    Thus the next elections which yielded in Zelensky presidence were a kind of ... what you are saying on "Afganistan invite" - almost the same pro-nazi speeches and people in new govt, no pursues on crimes, etc.

    That's right, Uncles!
    no need to make "fortresses"!!! - RF have no aim to make slaves from ukrainians or kill'em'all (like Hitler had) - no existential threat for Ukraine people and the state!
    But it is existential threat to nazi (Azov, and those who lead banderlogs into government) - so the operation is called: denazification.

    at the beginning and now RFMF propose to surrend and save UMF's lives - but their leaders demand to give soldiers lives for... for what? for oligarkhs? for the earth that does not belong to people/soldiers/families?

    there are brute force to involve civils into the war... - and that is a crime too.
     
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  6. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    Russians shoot non-combatants too.
    And, since we had a conscription system in place at the time I was graduating from my university, I will have no other option, if the country asks me to serve.
    Corporal -frog- reporting for duty Sir!
     
  7. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    Polyaks shoot non-combatants too.
    Americans shoot non-combatants too.
    Germans shoot non-combatants too.
    Ukrainians shoot non-combatants too.
    all shoot non-combatants too.
     
  8. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Here you get to be a lieutenant if you went to uni.
     
  9. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Amen, brother. It takes two to war. In the end, I guess the Ukrainians defending their country are the main responsibles for all this mess.

    Somehow I think you could find some fucked-up preacher saying this, no more than a few km* from you, right? What a blessed place.

    * a km is a kind of mile, but shorter, made up of only two letters
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2022
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  10. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    Same here, if you completed the 6-month training (the old "way").
    But since I did my second degree I hit the 2003 regulations, which changed the rules.

    Since 2003 one might have:
    - completed the extended training (6 or 9 months) and get "Lt."
    - completed the short (intensive training) (8 weeks in my case, up to 12 weeks depending on unit) and finish as a corporal.
    - refrain from serving - in this case you would still get a "private" rank in your soldier's book (don't ask me why - I can't understand that either).

    And since I had no other idea for my summer holidays (I was to start work in September) I just went to train to become corporal.
    Best thing?
    I was serving on the other side of my city, so after the oath I was no longer required to stay in the barracks - I just reported for service every morning.
     
  11. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    That's great.
    Here it was 1 year without uni, 1/2 with uni.
    Barracks all the time.
    In the end, as they were preparing for a pro army and ending compulsory training, they started to recruit less.
     
  12. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    And sometimes heroic resistance means survival and freedom.
     
  13. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    I am an atheist, or at least an agnostic. I don't believe in any gods, except in historical concepts. I'm also what used to be considered a socialist in the US. Don't throw that religious garbage at me, my friend. And I do consider you a friend, BTW, and that's something that I value. And I probably shouldn't post at this hour because I'm very tired. Working way too much and past exhaustion these days. And no, not related to world events. So I'm not really myself. I'm truly suffering from sleep deprivation. How wonderful work and life is! ;)
     
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  14. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    I never believed you were religious, no. I only wanted to point out that although any idea about Ukraine can seem as reasonable in a given context, ultimately the people defending their country are NOT the ones responsible for the humanitarian crisis.
    And although the Russian propaganda wants to instill the idea that the Ukrainian politicians are the ones pushing them to death, they are dying in order to protect their country and save their people.
    Did you know Russian artillery now shells the cities in two waves? They know that after the first shelling people and emergency personnel would come to rescue the victims. They allow them time to get there then shell it again, while the rescue operation is ongoing. This pattern has already been observed for some days. Yesterday an Ukrainian journalist, a lady, died during such shelling.
    Indeed I consider myself your friend, that's why I wanted to write to you all this. Sorry for the above teasing, I can never hold it.
    Sleep deprivation sucks indeed. Good night.
     
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  15. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    That's a good one: a KM is a kind of mile, only shorter ;)

    Where I live we have all kinds of religions, obviously, as most places do. For example, I have a Jewish neighbor from Brooklyn who converted to Sufism. There were some Mormons next-door for some time, too (and I worked a little in Utah, so I already had been given ~5K copies of their holy book. No offense meant to any spiritual folks in the WBFree community intended. There are some Krishnas here (they had an amazing restaurant, until they started selling alcohol, which caused them to be shut down by the Krishna organization, much to our dismay). Also, many of the university students who experimented with them got pissed off and left the commune because they didn't allow smoking of cigarettes.

    My favorite local "religious" institution is Buddhist, with a lot of genuine monks from various places in Asia. Sometimes I drive past their place when I go to buy a special local beer. What's strange is that they build amazing shrines and stuff. They are beautiful in their way. Lots of yellow, red, white and golden paints. A bit gaudy; not really my aesthetic cup of tea. But what I notice always is that they dump their garbage and left over construction materials a few yards* away from the new shrine and leave it there. So it looks like a garbage dump next to a shrine. Why don't they clean up? It ruins the entire experience. (But really, in many parts of the world I know people just dump their waste in a river, in a ditch or anywhere they may find convenient. Another topic entirely, sorry.)

    * Yards are a unit of distance that we yanks use. 1 yard = 3 feet, or a bit under a meter... Sorry, metre. Heh.
     
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  16. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    Good heavens, you really did get cheated. But at least you have basic training and they made you an NCO.

    Once during university, I had a summer job where we had to wear safety helmets. Everyone customized their helmets. I painted "ФМД" on the front of my helmet (I was thinking about F. M. Dostoyevskii). The guys thought it was a reference to a university fraternity. Hah! Sorry, that silly story makes me laugh to this day.

    I couldn't address you as a corporal with straight face. It would require a weird frown and furrowing of the brow, at the very least.
     
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  17. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    Well - it wasn't really a military service after all.
    First all the "dumb" regulations, ranks, rules of conduct - just as if this was a university lecture - with a theoretical exam later.
    After that the basics of urban and open field warfare, squad and platoon tactics, some PE (in "slightly" extended scope), shooting assault rifles and service pistols, throwing grenades - that stuff.
    I do guess without being sent to training for almost twenty years now, the best I could become in the field is to serve as cannon fodder (or checkpoint service).

    Still - this was far better a choice than half a year service (all my friends who have trained to become lieutenants are bothered by the army to report for training from time to time - I guess they have enough privates and corporals in the basic and reserve forces, not to bother the corporals of the reserves from former conscripts [Polish military has 4 main sources of "meat" - regular army, all with contracts, the national reserve forces - those who served under contracts, or signed to serve in the reserves - some 50.000 men, the territorial defense forces - 17 brigades, with another 3 forming right now, and the "last resort" - us, the former conscripts]).
    Serving "just a bit" proved far better than not serving at all (all these "privates" without any military training will be serving in the worst possible positions in case of war - cleaning lavatories and collecting corpses from the street - since they are assigned a military rank they can't say "no" but they won't be useful for any other purpose).
     
  18. pakman

    pakman Well-Known Member

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    Crysis-huizis.
     
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  19. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    We don't put them in concentration filtering camps, like you do, so we really start to see a problem.
    UK accepted 21000 refugees and cries, that it proves hard to find accommodation for them.
    We did accept 2.3 million.
     
  20. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    Yep, Netherlands put them in old prisons.
    :@popcorn: