jac, u're envious your Mayans couldn't navigate like the others no wonder, with that freaky calendar of theirs
You must have missed those points that Romans sailed down the coast of Africa and established colonies. Romans were the first to circumnavigate the British island and Romans discovered the Orkney islands. That took some sailing ability. Romans became great sailors. How you can say a navy that takes thousands of soldiers and supplies thousands of miles around the seas and oceans and beats all other navies for a period of more than 500 years is not a great navy or not great sailors? There is no evidence that those Roman ships could not have sailed around the world. I believe many other navies before could have and most likely did.
This time I have a links of my own... Romans and the orkney isles You have better information? I found no links that romans ever sailed around Africa. Phoenicians did, maybe. http://http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/africangeographers/a/AncientAfrica.htm The Greek historian Herodotus reports that Pharaoh Necho (Necos) II (ruler from c. 615-595 B.C.) had commissioned a number of Phoenicians to sail down the Red Sea, around the southern tip of Africa and back along the west coast, through the Pillars of Hercules to Egypt (Hdt. 4.42f). The Roman historian Pliny reports that Polybius may have sailed down the western coast in 146 B.C. -- at the end of the Third Punic War. A Euthymenes of Massilia (Marseilles) may also have traveled down the western coast of Africa, but records of his journey are not even clear as to the century in which he lived, let alone how far he traveled. "Herodotus (4.42) says that the Pharaoh Necho II, who reigned c. 615-595 B.C., determined to see if Africa could be circumnavigated. Accordingly, he commissioned a number of ships manned by Phoenicians for the task. These sailed down the Red Sea and down the east coast of Africa. Every year they settled for a while on the coast, cleared a strip of land, planted a crop and, when they had harvested it, continued on their journey. In the third year they sailed through the Pillars of Hercules and back to Egypt again. They reported that as they sailed around Africa they had the sun on their right. Herodotus refuses to believe this possible 'but perhaps others may.' For us of course this is conclusive proof that such a voyage was made. It is another instance of how Herodotus' dedication to recording exactly what he had heard, irrespective of whether he believed it or not, has given proof of an event which he described." Though if you sail from south to northwards (which is possible even without going around whole africa) the sun will probably be at your right side, at mornings anyway. Fortunately that doesn't stop our lebanese friends stating that "For us of course this is conclusive proof that such a voyage was made." Again, all those trips you mentioned, are able to make by sailing via shorelines. Orkneys were most likely "found" by romans with the help of local scotsman. Only trip I could count as "sailing", is from Sicily to Carthago, and that's not a really long distance when comparing to previous claims of having a merchant route over atlantic... There is no evidence that those Roman ships could not have sailed around the world. I believe many other navies before could have and most likely did. But you give me no facts, not even your own assumptions. Just some vague litelature links that you know I'd have problems to study. You don't seem to take note that most of the people living at that time had a really limited view of whats the world like. Hell, the dragons lives south of Egypt for all they knew. Why would any sane person make such trip in a fuckin rowing boat? (I'll reserve a right of serious editing, since I'm kinda drunk and using the "quick reply" window... )
A lot of talk of names. Names and organizations of people. Sailors, explorers. Long time ago, I can't remember, ships were coastal. ALL ships made by humans were coastal. I mean ALL of them. Human technology hadn't the type of sails needed in order for ships to beat INTO the wind. Rudders weren't invented until when??? Not sure, but it wasn't that long ago. No, not that small of a distance in time, but I mean, we see pictures of old COASTAL vessels that had NO RUDDER, they had a fuckin oar. No a rudder. How is a phoneshion captian, who has no rudder manned [has no rudder].... on deck and no way of beating to windward supposed to sail ANYWHERE near the coast of Africa and not sail INTO some BIG ROCKS? The west coast of africa is NOT ANYTHING like mediterainian waters. AAAnd yeah, there were galleys. Galleys without rudders or suitable rigging. A fisherman is not a navigator, he is a fisherman.
You forgot the uber civilization. Carpato-Danubians invented the rudder. But when they conquered the Rome they forgot it. And one indian tribe in south america (or suchbulu as they called it, though nothing written is left behind, one guy at the bar told me that) had a gyrocopter all worked out.
I think we humans have forgotten some stuff that we USED to know how to do. Yep. But there are things that groups of humans learned to do, technologies, that were explained to OTHER PEOPLE. It is said the people in North America never got around to making wheels. [no pun] This is not to say those people didn't know that round things ROLL WHEN YOU PUSH THEM. Maybe the people living in the wild continent of North America saw no need to BUILT AND MAINTAIN SURFACED ROADS. Too many people talk about Technology as if it were a thing. It isn't.
Check out the navigator magicians of the ancient times. I guess those Hawaiians must have got dropped off buy one of those Carpato-Danubians on their way to Egypt using a Roman hot-rodded Phoenian cruiser. I remember Han Solo told me at the bar his crate could do the Cressa run in three parsecs. Imagine that.... Mau Piailug, meet Thor Heyerdahl http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~feegi/astro.html
Lemmings don't take a dive into the water because they like to, they wish to, they have a 'strange yern" even. The go for a swim becuase they are looking for somewhere to land, not so they can take a dangerous chance and drown or the other things that can happen. The great navigators were not. No, I mean, the great ones where great, and that is becuase their navigation was part of a record. Navigation isn't finding your way to a place, it is getting there. I was reading the Hornblower books. Yep, doing those books one more time. Hronblower was a captain, his navigator was crew. The captain made a lot of desisions, boy did he. ANd there were a lot of things in those books you wood figure had nothing to do with navigation. Hmmmm. Yeah, you do well wondering at those who sail the ocians. Wow the humanity, the struggle, the risk, the cayones. Those Van Danikan guys, they sailed in a nice ship, but they were still stuck. Ya can't go out for a stroll when you are stuck on a ship. If you get really stuck, you have no were to run and sometimes dying takes a long time on the deck. Bye
Avast there Matie... two things that never went down with the ship was the compass and the charts. When the Crusaders and the Knights of Rhodes were mostly a sailors and naval power, the first things to take were the ship's charts and log books. Never you mind where that Turkish sea captain got a map of pre-ice Antartica, but I reckon it weren't no Barnes and Noble nor Amazon.com . Unfortunately in readings or late, I have come to the conclusion, sort of like one of your mottos: "behind every great fortune is a crime.." something to that effect. That a lot of the motivation for setting sail into to unknown or near unknown as most of these great ones and not-so-great ones sort of had some clues... the motivation, was greed or something for nothing or near nothin'. Columbus, Mayflower, John Cabot, DeSoto, Cortez, Moses, Daniel Boone, Kit Carson, Lewis and Clark... Manhattan Island for $24.00 etc. El Dorado, City of Gold, Fountain of Youth, Yukon and the Klondike.... Sonny and Cher said it a long time ago.... "The Beat Goes On.." I'm in one of those strange moods. Damn, Rude, you get me to drinkin' and thinkin' again.... thanks
Ok guys with 15 mins of spare time, check this out.. Well,does this guy have a reason or what he has? F.ex. Sony pictures will release a movie called 2012 which is postponed by a year now, even the trailer is allready online....and that info is also included on this info clip. THE 2012 CONSPIRACY(3/4) THE 2012 CONSPIRACY(4/4)
Mr. Jackson has made a new boardgame called Illuminati..check out what happened to him via acts of secret service... Illuminati Game pfft
In the mayan calendar the 6th night is approaching. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 6th “Night” Nov. 2009 – Nov. 2010[/FONT]. Section twelve (6th night) is one last period of “Dark” in the cycle happens now. In the plant’s life the flowers wilt and die setting the stage for fruit development or of seedpods that will dry. This is what happened to the Maya civilization right on queue. Throughout human history there have been conflicts and revolts during this period, most recent of these having been the Viet Nam war. Mayan Calendar Sixth Night Comprehend?
