@Boroda LOL (I don't think anything else is necessary to say... just continue live in your small world and read some books... until then- case closed for me, you're uncureably sick, nationalistic and fashist version of communism being the illness)
Hi, Frog and my other friends from Poland! I'm naiive and consider all in FH to be my friends Of course it's not my business to discuss Katyn, because I'm American. But perhaps I'm not a "normal" American, because my father was Prussian, my German grandmother spoke Polish to me sometimes, my family was involved in both world wars, etc. Some people in my family actually greeted me with me "Heil Hitler!" I don't need to prove my "credentials" or any of that crap, because I speak as a simple man, and only for myself. But I wanted to say that I met Boroda and he's a good guy. He's had the guts to stand up and discuss the controversial Katyn matter and he hasn't resorted to cursing or character assassination, from what I read so far. He's asked for counter-documentation, etc. Personally, I've always read American-endorsed accounts of the Katyn massacre (and they always suggested that the Russians did it), but I'm open to alternative opinions. Especially because I personally know of American cooperation with SS members after the war. From what I've heard from first-hand accounts of the war, nothing surprises me. Germans told me what they did in the war and Germans told me what Russians did to them. Anyway, we all have the opportunity these days to not repeat the mistakes of our ancestors, and to try and understand each other, and I hope we can avoid those old mistakes. Peace
I think the case is closed, at least with you. It's hard to argue with religious people. We have different mindsets. You are a good proof of nazi/Western propaganda victory, when rational thinking and natural doubt is substituted by a set of instant opinions that can't be questioned, like Holy Bible. It's hard to hope that you'll understand my POW, but I want to tell you that if I see two reasonable explanations for one event, one - Western and another - Soviet, I'll choose a Soviet version. Just for my own sanity's sake. You can't believe what a stream of shit is poured on Russians from TV this days. As Jefim said - I'll prefer to respect the history of my country, just like you respect yours. A person who hates his country is an idiot, and I see millions of such idiots around me. I once had a conversation with a young man, 20 years old, who seriously tried to persuade me that USSR had to surrender to nazis in 1941...
Sorry for entering this discussion, but hate your country is not the same as recognize it was mistaken. My country made a lot of stupid things in the past, but i still love being spanish. You can assume mistakes from the past and still be in love with your homeland. However, i can't say if you're right or wrong, who killed who or nothing, but i think frog is telling you to accept what (in his opinon [or facts, dunno]) was a russian mistake. And viceversa. My 2 cents
@Uncles Why did Gorbatschev and Jeltzin believe the "pro-Nazi" (as Boroda calls it) version of that gruesome crime of war? Were they also Americano-German spies, sent to Russia in order to de-stabilize it's reputation? I don't say everything's right in today's Russia... but it's far from where it was in the Stalin era, very far. Everyone trying to make a father of a nation out of a ruthless murderer i worth less than a circus-clown when it comes to credibility. So brutal and straight-forward as my refusal to further discuss the matter with Boroda was, so inclined as this story in the life of my family is... I just can not accept same herecies being told over and over again. If Boroda can not live with that- so be it. But flaming the Polish section of this board with anti-polish and fictional herecies is at least as unkind as my refusal to further play in this sandbox. This funny, yet frightening, topic started, when badboy citated a link from some other Forum... doing that in International section of Forum. As not all Russians are brainded/blind some kind administrator moved that topic away from International just not to put Russians further in shame. Only one individual remained so blinded with his hatred towards the Polish (or love to Stalin- both are possible) that showing no tact, nor responsibility, he continued to propagize his "true and only version" of History, although he was repetedly asked to finish that. It's not guts what makes him ask such questions, as you try to convince me Uncles... making such remarks about Katyń as he has made here is like joking about the WTC Victims in the U.S... tasteless and stupid. That are my main reasons to place the post from yesterday... which all of you seem to treat as rude, offensive and unkind... if you want to treat it so... so be it, but no respect from me should be awaited.
Gorby was a traitor, and it's obvious. Again: I wonder why he didn't say that bloody Russian bolshevics crusified Christ. Frog, please, do me a favour, show me the "documents" provided by Gorbachev. Seriously. You know, Russians never believe anythig until they can touch it with their own hands. Do you yourself have access to this materials? If you don't - it's a good reason to think about the reasons, and for me it will be a 100% proof that they lie to you. About "ruthless murderer" - I guess you again are misinformed. JFYI: in 1999 we had more people in prisons in Russian Federation then there were in USSR in GULAG in worst years. Pessimist is a well-informed optimist. Sorry for your family. Again, if USSR executed that poor Poles - I want to say that I am sorry. Really sorry. But here you finaly use the right word, that completes the picture of your attitude to Katyn': "herecies". Yes, it's a religious matter for you. I only can say that I can't understand a religion based on hatered. Hatered towards Ivans seems to be a base of modern Polish ideology and the very existance of Polish state. A price, nessessary for enetering a club of so-called "civilized nations", entering as a servant and cannon-fodder Sorry I only wonder how much you'll pay for exiting this club, "in for a penny, out for a pound" I'd like my country to remain barbaric, politically-incorrect and practical when it comes to our goals. And I don't think I "flamed" here. I only express my opinion, and want to find the truth that is not as obvious from my side of the "barricades". I am not "anti-Polish", and I can't see how trying to find out the truth about Katyn' can be "anti-Polish". Stalin was not a girl and doesn't have to be "loved". It seems to me that it's not me who "continued to propagize his "true and only version" of History"... I admit that it could be Soviets who committed that crime. I only want some proof, other then "as seen on Ophrah's". So far the only real evidences and facts are against your version, that's the problem I understand that I may hurt your feelings, religion is a very special matter, and, as an atheist, I understand it. I don't feel offended in any way. I see a dangerous tendency in recent actions of our governments that try to play on imaginary hatered between our nations. They want us to hate each other. I don't know how you feel - but for Russians our government is our main enemy for last 1000 years since Russia was baptised.
In fact the text is quite true. The fall of communism was part of the plan (and subsequent transfer of all state assets into private hands) - the West had little to do with it. Please, do not stomp in the chest, we defeated ourselves. CIA gained influence in my country only in the 1990s. Such as failing the first democratic elections because stupid aboriginees voted back for communism with human face, rather than american capitalism.
when in bulgaria do as the russians do when in albania do as the rusians do when in romania do as the russians do when in hungarie do as the russians do when in the czech do as the russians do finlly... when in poland do as the russians do or as the germans do, depend on season
When in Albania, wouldn't you want to do as the Chinese did? Ah, I remember the good old days of the Cold War, listening to Radio Tirana, and hearing them label Jimmy Carter "the boss of US imperialism."
panowie nim sie nie przejmujcie - to jelop ktory normalnie smrodzi na internationalu a teraz przyszedl i tu.
